Valhalla: Amazing Geological Wonder Discovered in Oregon

[Koda]

I’ll admit this is a big discovery but I do admit I wish they’d have kept is secret… although this does fall into the too far, too difficult category to keep the masses away.

I personally liked the OPB trip report, it really captured the adventure and the love of canyoneering in the team members. You cant truly explore it from the side, rappelling down the center of the canyon is what canyoneering is about, they aced this one. I also think its great that OPB included Mike Malone in the report since he presented his discovery to OPB…. When you get a feeling about someplace and go to great lengths to discover it becomes a personal accomplishment when you get there that becomes a part of who you are. I think its great he got to give it a name.

As far as OPB not getting permits I’d like to see a source on that…

No permits were issued because NONE WERE SOUGHT BY OPB.

[Leeroy]

As far as OPB not getting permits I’d like to see a source on that…

No permits were issued because NONE WERE SOUGHT BY OPB.

If I'm reading that correct it would appear that you are accusing me of lying about this?

If you think I'm making this up you are welcome to contact the Forest Service like I did and ask for yourself. If permits were issued there would be a paper trail which would be public record and they would, by law, have to disclose them. There is no paper trail because no permits were issued. They didn't even contact the Ranger station to ask them if they were aware of this feature. Although nothing overtly negative was said by either of the people I talked to it was blatantly apparent that they were NOT happy with the actions of OPB and OFG.

If, on the other hand, they (OPB) did get the appropriate permits from the FS to conduct commercial business in a designated wilderness AND permission to travel in a group size that was double that which is allowed AND fly a helicopter for commercial purposes below the Federally mandated minimum altitude allowed for all aircraft in a wilderness... then not one but two different Rangers told me a bald faced lie today and the FS has some explaining to do regarding why they approved the permits without seeking public comment. I don't think that's the case but you are welcome to prove me wrong.

I won't print the names of either of the individuals I spoke with earlier today out of the Detroit Ranger District office but you are more than welcome to call them yourselves and have a conversation with them. Nice folks doing a difficult job. The actions of OPB are going to make their job even more difficult.

[aiwetir]

You cant truly explore it from the side, rappelling down the center of the canyon is what canyoneering is about, they aced this one.

That is true, but rappelling down the top waterfall for the hell if it wasn't necessary. There were people standing at the bottom filming the act, they got there by another route either hiked, scrambled, or rappelled and not down the stream of the top waterfall. The guy doing the rappelling was supposedly the expert they were going to rely on to get them through, I wonder if anyone thought it might not be a great idea that their 'expert' be taking the early risks.

[kepPNW]

You cant truly explore it from the side, rappelling down the center of the canyon is what canyoneering is about, they aced this one.

That is true, but rappelling down the top waterfall for the hell if it wasn't necessary. There were people standing at the bottom filming the act, they got there by another route either hiked, scrambled, or rappelled and not down the stream of the top waterfall.

Right. There was another waterfall, mid-journey, where rappelling seemed the only way down. But that first one was only for the footage, as they'd already acknowledged a scramble route down. (Which is probably the best ticket most of us have to getting in there.)

The guy doing the rappelling was supposedly the expert they were going to rely on to get them through, I wonder if anyone thought it might not be a great idea that their 'expert' be taking the early risks.

Heh. Why worry, huh?

[Koda]

If I'm reading that correct it would appear that you are accusing me of lying about this?

not accusing you of lying just looking for evidence that you don’t provide other than what your saying here on a forum. You said OPB didnt seek out permits but you called the ranger station to ask them not OPB. You have a good point about any permits being public record but does that mean the ranger station is responsible for keeping those permits on file? Not creating conflict, just asking questions to learn more. If OPB didnt get the permits then yeah that would be something that should be addressed.

[Koda]

You cant truly explore it from the side, rappelling down the center of the canyon is what canyoneering is about, they aced this one.

That is true, but rappelling down the top waterfall for the hell if it wasn't necessary. There were people standing at the bottom filming the act, they got there by another route either hiked, scrambled, or rappelled and not down the stream of the top waterfall. The guy doing the rappelling was supposedly the expert they were going to rely on to get them through, I wonder if anyone thought it might not be a great idea that their 'expert' be taking the early risks.

Well, what’s "necessary" is an opinion by who was there... and certainly not a bad idea if its well within ones expertise. My guess is the camera crew could have rappeled first or was lowered... I don’t see why the star of the show had to go first. But maybe your right there was an easier way in then filming the rappel would be more boasting than anything. I just don’t know though, I wasn’t there.

[Koda]

The guy doing the rappelling was supposedly the expert they were going to rely on to get them through, I wonder if anyone thought it might not be a great idea that their 'expert' be taking the early risks.

my guess is the canyon is not as difficult as they made it to be.... after all that’s what film crews do, make it look overly incredible. I also am assuming the rest of the team has equal experience canyoneering that just cant be a one man show.

[Leeroy]

If I'm reading that correct it would appear that you are accusing me of lying about this?

not accusing you of lying just looking for evidence that you don’t provide other than what your saying here on a forum. You said OPB didnt seek out permits but you called the ranger station to ask them not OPB. You have a good point about any permits being public record but does that mean the ranger station is responsible for keeping those permits on file? Not creating conflict, just asking questions to learn more. If OPB didnt get the permits then yeah that would be something that should be addressed.

I did call OPB. I left a very polite voice mail for the producer. She has yet to return my call.

They did answer my Facebook message and verified that a helicopter was used. They did not tell me what altitude it was flown at. If they were taking pictures for the show from the helicopter then permits would have been needed regardless of the altitude at which they took them. They stated that OPB did not use any drones. To be fair, I didn't ask them at that point if they had obtained the permits because I never imagined that they hadn't applied for them.

I learned that they failed to apply for permits from the Forest Service only this morning. I'm looking forward to the conversation with the producer. Although, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for her to get back to me.

I also contacted the production company, Uncage the Soul, who assisted with the photography and was part of the "expedition." They verified that OPB did use a helicopter but stated that "all that was orchestrated by OPB." I followed that up by asking if they used drones to capture any of the footage. They have not replied yet but I'll keep you posted.

[Koda]

I also contacted the production company, Uncage the Soul

although not surprised they did the filming whats interesting is there is another thread in here where someone questioned whether they had a permit to film the ice caves on Hood... and they did use drones for that one. Wasnt that an OPB presentation as well?

let us know what you find. I liked the OPB show, but I would have questions as to why OPB doesn’t need a permit to film and fly etc. but I would need one if I wanted to video document my adventures in any wilderness area.

[Leeroy]

Here's an article that OPB ran a while back that basically defends their position that the law doesn't apply to them.

http://www.opb.org/news/article/media-v ... to-film-o/

OPB’s weekly TV series “Oregon Field Guide” has filmed numerous stories in wilderness areas. Producers say that over the last four years the Forest Service has asked them to apply for permits at least 12 times. The station has not yet gone through the permitting process.

I love the quote from the Idaho broadcaster that essential says he shouldn't have to pay for a permit because it's time consuming and would cost them money

"Certainly the kinds of stories we’ve done over the years wouldn’t be possible if we’re constantly having to get permits, pay fees, and frankly the length of time it takes to go through that process,” he said.

According to that rational I shouldn't have to get an Obsidian limited use entry permit because I have to take the time, well in advance of my trip, to get it and I don't want to have to pay the illegal fee to the contractor that is making millions of dollars a year to run a computer program that issues "free" permits. Same would go for the Pamelia Lake trailhead not far from Hyperbole Canyon. I travel light too and leave no trace so the rules shouldn't apply to me right?