Your cell phone could save you even when you have no service
- vibramhead
- Posts: 810
- Joined: November 15th, 2009, 10:52 am
- Location: SW Portland
Your cell phone could save you even when you have no service
This is worth considering, if things go wrong. Your phone might be able to relay your position even if it shows no signal.
Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
Very valuable to know! Thanks for posting that.vibramhead wrote:This is worth considering, if things go wrong. Your phone might be able to relay your position even if it shows no signal.
Karl
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Back on the trail, again...
Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
It's not *quite* that simple...
Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
It never is, I suppose. Was hoping you'd see this. Can you comment on whether, or to what degree, SAR may glean useful info if one tries to call 911 when their phone appears to be out of range? I surely recognize there are times it simply won't work, period. But would you tell people it's worth "wasting battery" on when it otherwise appears futile?Lurch wrote:It's not *quite* that simple...
Karl
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Back on the trail, again...
Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
I have the same question as Karl. I’ll take a stab at it though and say I wouldn't advocate this because my guess is for that to work SAR would have to know your number and carrier and also have legal access to other carriers “handshake” records if they even knew who those other carriers (closest towers?) are…. What are the odds. In a very high profile case, maybe… but not likely for the average person.
here is something that is part of this equation though, if you use Android Google keeps a gps track of your phone at all times. I checked mine after two different trips to remote cellless locations and both were recorded even though my phone was in airplane mode (to save battery). In fact I was able to download the gps track and view it in GE.
but again, it would take legal access to those records. My guess only if the situation was determined a criminal event would SAR be given access to private location data.
here is something that is part of this equation though, if you use Android Google keeps a gps track of your phone at all times. I checked mine after two different trips to remote cellless locations and both were recorded even though my phone was in airplane mode (to save battery). In fact I was able to download the gps track and view it in GE.
but again, it would take legal access to those records. My guess only if the situation was determined a criminal event would SAR be given access to private location data.
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
I have no knowledge of this handshake stuff, but for a lot of folks a spouse or other relative would likely have both the phone number and carrier, as well as be in contact with SAR.Koda wrote:I have the same question as Karl. I’ll take a stab at it though and say I wouldn't advocate this because my guess is for that to work SAR would have to know your number and carrier and also have legal access to other carriers “handshake” records if they even knew who those other carriers (closest towers?) are…. What are the odds. In a very high profile case, maybe… but not likely for the average person.
Requires the Google account credentials to see, right? And it's also very wonky when only a single tower is available (my interpretation), showing your location many miles from reality. For example...Koda wrote:here is something that is part of this equation though, if you use Android Google keeps a gps track of your phone at all times. I checked mine after two different trips to remote cellless locations and both were recorded even though my phone was in airplane mode (to save battery). In fact I was able to download the gps track and view it in GE.
Highlighted location is presumably a far-away tower?
The link for curious Android users to try: https://maps.google.com/locationhistory/b/0
Karl
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Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
Disclaimer, I'm learning here so this is my take....
regardless though, I'm wondering how this data falls privacy wise? For now my guess is unless a criminal investigation is underway its considered private data. If its not private data Im either shutting off the feature or throwing my Android in the river....
Correct, but only if the person left their info with someone. But that only covers 1 side, im more referring to the guest towers because in this scenario the lost person does not have access to their carrier towers. So, how does SAR know what other carriers to call and do they have legal access to those records? Are the guest carriers required by law to keep those "handshakes" and are they private?kepPNW wrote:I have no knowledge of this handshake stuff, but for a lot of folks a spouse or other relative would likely have both the phone number and carrier, as well as be in contact with SAR.
correct, but this is still valuable information to SAR. Google track points are not as frequent as a personal GPS device is but I bet the X and Y of the track points are accurate enough. So consider the really major wonks are obvious outliers but notice how much more accurate the detail is on your hike location, which is really the heart of the matter. Its surprisingly accurate in such a remote location with no cell service.kepPNW wrote:Requires the Google account credentials to see, right? And it's also very wonky when only a single tower is available (my interpretation), showing your location many miles from reality. For example...
regardless though, I'm wondering how this data falls privacy wise? For now my guess is unless a criminal investigation is underway its considered private data. If its not private data Im either shutting off the feature or throwing my Android in the river....
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
In my case, my wife would definitely be in contact with SAR, as she's the one who'd be calling in the missing report. So she'd definitely know phone# and carrier info. After looking more closely at the Google tracking info, she's also going to have most current credentials for my Google account(s), too! Check this out:
Thinking on this some more, I guess the real question is, at what point are these data sent to Google? If those points are only uploaded after I'm back in contact with cell towers, it's all meaningless, isn't it? Need to devise a way to test that!
Thinking on this some more, I guess the real question is, at what point are these data sent to Google? If those points are only uploaded after I'm back in contact with cell towers, it's all meaningless, isn't it? Need to devise a way to test that!
Karl
Back on the trail, again...
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Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
Does she have you gmail password? The one associated with your phone?kepPNW wrote:In my case, my wife would definitely be in contact with SAR, as she's the one who'd be calling in the missing report. So she'd definitely know phone# and carrier info. After looking more closely at the Google tracking info, she's also going to have most current credentials for my Google account(s), too!
perhaps, but how many people also give their family their gmail password... which is whats needed to access your Google tracking on your behalf? (assuming this info is instantly available, which I believe it is as I've checked mine at work and it detailed my morning commute route...) Also, many Android users dont actually use their gmail.
Whats interesting is how easily this Google feature replaces beacon devices like SPOT.
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
Re: Your cell phone could save you even when you have no ser
She will now. (That's what I was meaning to say above.)Koda wrote:Does she have you gmail password? The one associated with your phone?kepPNW wrote:In my case, my wife would definitely be in contact with SAR, as she's the one who'd be calling in the missing report. So she'd definitely know phone# and carrier info. After looking more closely at the Google tracking info, she's also going to have most current credentials for my Google account(s), too!
perhaps, but how many people also give their family their gmail password... which is whats needed to access your Google tracking on your behalf?
That's a good way to test it! I don't generally put it in airplane mode when I'm in "civilization," but I'll try to remember doing it before going on a lunch walk, and see what it shows when I get back to the office!Koda wrote:(assuming this info is instantly available, which I believe it is as I've checked mine at work and it detailed my morning commute route...)
Karl
Back on the trail, again...
Back on the trail, again...