$36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

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Bosterson
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$36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by Bosterson » May 17th, 2018, 6:39 pm

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... d_eag.html
Ordering a teenager without any money to pay more than $36 million "frankly is on its face absurd,'' Morris said. He criticized the state's restitution law for removing any discretion from a judge, particularly in a juvenile case, calling it "cruel and unusual punishment'' akin to mandatory minimum sentences for crimes under Measure 11.
Meanwhile:
"I get to look at torched Angel's Rest every day. It will never be the same," gorge resident Paul Smith said at the courthouse before the hearing.
HA HA HA HA HA. Glad to see the Oregonian trotting out pity quotes from random bystanders. Angel's Rest has definitely never caught fire before.
Smith said he's disappointed the teen isn't serving any time in custody. "I was raised there are consequences for your actions," he said.
This is stupid. And you already lost the right to have an opinion with your lament for Angel's Rest, which barely looks different than it did before. (Driven east lately, Paul Smith?)
Jeff Bonebrake, investigator and cost recovery coordinator for the Oregon Department of Forestry, said his agency usually doesn't ask for a lot or get a lot of money through restitution in criminal court but recovers costs regularly through the civil process.

..."We want to hold people accountable when it's justifiable,'' Bonebrake said.
God, what a monumental waste of everyone's time. I'll bet the Forest Service has spent $36M on plastic fencing and all the people sitting in parked cars guarding the trailheads 24-7 while we wait for them to finish the hypothetical repairs they're doing.
Will hike off trail for fun.

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Guy
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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by Guy » May 17th, 2018, 10:17 pm

I have to agree with you whole heatedly on this Nat. My reasoning was only strengthened this evening by the fact that Chiyoko & I hiked Dog Mt after work. On the way home passing through Cascade Locks at about 9:15pm we saw that somebody is still being paid by USFS to sit in a car with a flashing light on top in case anybody dares to venture onto the Old Columbia Highway trail at night. It's so comforting to know I'm working 6 days a week to help support this.

What happened was horrific but as I've said before most 15 year old boys only have half a brain and that only works half the time when there are 15 year old girls around. Yes he should be punished but the punishment needs to be achievable.
Last edited by Guy on May 18th, 2018, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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retired jerry
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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by retired jerry » May 18th, 2018, 6:13 am

are they going to dog him for the rest of his life, taking all of his income he ever makes?

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drm
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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by drm » May 18th, 2018, 7:13 am

My guess is that most of the labor involved was with people already employed, though undoubtedly some overtime was involved. So the actual labor costs are them not doing whatever else they would have been doing.

I also wouldn't be at all surprised if the various government agencies are required to report their actual expenses. They don't usually have that wide a latitude. As far as these things go, it is the collection effort, if there is any, that becomes the concern.

And while I share the opinion that severe criminal punishment is not called for, actions have consequences and as to whether this thing will dog him the rest of his life, it will if he lets it, and that's fair. But if he now spends the coming years proving otherwise, then that will change. If he does trail maintenance trips and demonstrates remorse, people are very forgiving.

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retired jerry
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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by retired jerry » May 18th, 2018, 7:30 am

The focus should be to communicate to the public that this was a bad idea

Anyone thinking of letting off fireworks or otherwise setting a fire should think twice, "I don't want what happened to that guy to happen to me"

BigBear
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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by BigBear » May 18th, 2018, 12:10 pm

The defendant in this case lit off multiple fire works in a national forest (prohibited activity) during an extreme fire danger (emphasis on prohibited) on a trail already partially closed due to a fireworks fire three months earlier. Even more interesting, while Hood River was under a level-2 evacuation notice some teenagers started a 2-acre fire with fireworks inside the city limits just 2 weeks after the Eagle Creek fire started. Obviously, the consequences for illegal and unbelievably stupid actions needs to have some consequences that can be felt - not the usual slap on the wrist.

The damage to the recreational opportunities in the Gorge have severe economic consequences for the city of Cascade Locks. The "inconvenience" due to some kid's fun will be felt for at least 5 years. 2 million tourists visiting Multnomah Falls each year will not be able to hike the trial, nor with the 1.6 million that venture up Wahkeena Falls trail or the 1.2 million on Eagle Creek trail. In short, this inconvenience impacts more than just a handful of people.

Then there's the 120 people on the Eagle Creek trail caught between two fires that were not prepared for a weekend on the trail.

I am thankful that I was able to hike these trails so many times in my youth. It may be a long time (or never) before I get an other opportunity.

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Bosterson
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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by Bosterson » May 18th, 2018, 12:22 pm

So is your position that $36M is a fair restitution that should be paid by the person child in question? Or was that just a philosophical treatise about how actions have consequences? I'm not seeing anything in the conversation above implying that no harm came of this, or that the kid should be patted on the back for a job well done and sent on his way. If your analysis above alludes to something more subtle, I apologize that it appears to have gone over my head. :ugeek:
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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by Aimless » May 18th, 2018, 1:03 pm

Sometimes it takes a long time to get over one's anger, even when the anger accomplishes nothing of value. As a friend of mine is fond of saying, there's no point in hoping for a better yesterday. The child was identified and is being punished in ways that may do about as much good for society as is possible in a situation like this. Chopping his head off wouldn't solve a damn thing.

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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by Guy » May 18th, 2018, 5:27 pm

If I remember corrector he is from an immigrant family, Ukraine if I remember correctly I don't know if he was born here or not but either way if his parents are of Ukraine citizenship he would have no problem getting citizenship if he doesn't have it already.

Faced with a 36 Million Dollar Bill what would you do ;)
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romann
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Re: $36M "restitution" sought from 15 year old Eagle Creek Fire setter

Post by romann » May 19th, 2018, 11:57 am

Yes I don't see this going indefinitely in his life. Several years is fair, but taking his income for life doesn't seem reasonable punishment (or helps to achieve anything). Gorge won't suddenly become greener if he pays $36 million. Most likely he'll do it for the next maybe 10 years, and given his apology and any future community service will be forgiven.

Guy, I think you wanted to say he would have no a big problem getting citizenship if he doesn't have it already. Because they would ask about any trouble with the law first thing he comes to citizenship interview. Same thing with education loans, or getting a good job in the future - the punishment doesn't stop with judge's verdict.

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