A few years ago I did the Grand Tetons loop - that's one of the best known national parks, and I clearly saw backpackers with all manner of heavy luxuries, swinging from the packs and slamming into their legs and whatnot. These people seemed to clearly have no idea what they were doing and a few I talked to readily acknowledged that while commenting that they were on their first backpack. The thing is that I really don't see that in our local national forests. For the most part they seem to attract a somewhat more experienced crowd. But I only backpack on Hood rarely and so maybe you see the same thing there that I saw in the Tetons. But I also know through hikers who suffer what I call the tyranny of mileage maximization: nothing matters more than getting the most mileage that they can. So maybe I'm going a bit too far in that direction.Schrauf wrote: ↑August 9th, 2019, 8:05 amI was just trying to get at the predominance of people I've seen on Mt Hood that appear to be struggling with heavy packs and longer than planned hiking days, and appear to be able to benefit from more awareness regarding lighter gear options, unnecessary gear choices, or at least less daily mileage if all that gear is preferred.
Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
- adamschneider
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Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
Everything I've ever read about cougar encounters says that if they act aggressively, you should make yourself big, throw rocks, etc.... basically let the cougar know that you're potentially dangerous and not easy prey. Do you know some secret about cougar behavior that we don't?keithcomess wrote: ↑August 9th, 2019, 10:00 amYour WordPress blog posts suggests you're considering bringing "a slingshot" to deal with animals: that's a manifestation of nearly incredible arrogance and disrespect for nature. If you actually managed to hit a cougar with a slingshot, you'd likely provoke a justly deserved defensive attack.
Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
I agree. Definitely don't throw rocks if the cougar is not aggressive, but once they become so, be as threatening as possible. Slingshot comment was probably tongue-in-cheek anyway - unless she's pretty damn good with a slingshot!adamschneider wrote: ↑August 9th, 2019, 1:06 pmEverything I've ever read about cougar encounters says that if they act aggressively, you should make yourself big, throw rocks, etc.... basically let the cougar know that you're potentially dangerous and not easy prey. Do you know some secret about cougar behavior that we don't?keithcomess wrote: ↑August 9th, 2019, 10:00 amYour WordPress blog posts suggests you're considering bringing "a slingshot" to deal with animals: that's a manifestation of nearly incredible arrogance and disrespect for nature. If you actually managed to hit a cougar with a slingshot, you'd likely provoke a justly deserved defensive attack.
Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
I'm probably being a little harsh. Mt Hood area likely gets more experienced backpackers on average than many areas, especially National Parks.drm wrote: ↑August 9th, 2019, 12:28 pmA few years ago I did the Grand Tetons loop - that's one of the best known national parks, and I clearly saw backpackers with all manner of heavy luxuries, swinging from the packs and slamming into their legs and whatnot. These people seemed to clearly have no idea what they were doing and a few I talked to readily acknowledged that while commenting that they were on their first backpack. The thing is that I really don't see that in our local national forests. For the most part they seem to attract a somewhat more experienced crowd. But I only backpack on Hood rarely and so maybe you see the same thing there that I saw in the Tetons. But I also know through hikers who suffer what I call the tyranny of mileage maximization: nothing matters more than getting the most mileage that they can. So maybe I'm going a bit too far in that direction.Schrauf wrote: ↑August 9th, 2019, 8:05 amI was just trying to get at the predominance of people I've seen on Mt Hood that appear to be struggling with heavy packs and longer than planned hiking days, and appear to be able to benefit from more awareness regarding lighter gear options, unnecessary gear choices, or at least less daily mileage if all that gear is preferred.
Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
I completely agree that it's important to check in on other runners/backpackers/travelers, particularly in night conditions. Asking about experience, checking that someone has the correct gear etc. There are increased risks at night, but these just need to be managed appropriately. I don't think it is good luck that gets people through this kind of adventure, it's good preparation and smart risk assessment. For example, taking 30 mins at each river crossing to properly assess the right spot, instead of just blindly crossing as you are able to do in the day. I carried considerably more emergency gear so that if I did injure myself, I would be able to adequately make it through the night. People were very critical even of the concept of traveling at night or moving quickly, rather than asking clear questions. Assessment is key (and a few groups asked questions about why I was doing this, checking I had the right gear which was all completely great), but I disagree that a speedy night loop is a fundamentally bad idea.BigBear wrote: ↑August 9th, 2019, 8:36 amCongratulations on your accomplishment. Circumnavigating Mt. Hood is a proud accomplishment.
I would disagree with your statement "don't judge me" in response to others' assessment of your task.
First, you were making judgements about people who were making judgements of how prudent your planned actions were (sounds a bit hypocritical to me, but, then again, I'm 100% judging on the Brinks-Meyers test).
Second, you frequently mentioned the number one reason people thought your night-time run was not very wise: if you can't see (even with a headlamp), you are much more likely to get lost. Their judgement of this risk was quite accurate.
Third, your cougar encounter showed how humans are not the alpha primate in the forest. Runners are most at risk in a cougar attack because running makes you look like prey. The chance cougar sighting would not have been as high on my list as the next concern.
Fourth (which is actually #1 on why I wait until the sun comes up): tripping over obstacles, falling and injuring myself. Congratulations to you for making it 40 miles with 10,000 feet of gain or loss without getting hopelessly lost, injuring yourself, and requiring rescue.
You are a braver, more energetic and more coordinated person than I. However, "judging" or assessing risks of an activity is a critical element of every activity. Running around Mt. Hood as you experienced, is a high-risk activity and other outdoor enthusiasts will correctly assess it that way. You were very fortunate and again should be congratulated for the accomplishment. Hope you are as fortunate on your next nighttime run through the wilderness.
Also...the slingshot was a joke! I actually don't think it's the worst idea but it's not for me.
Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
That was an entertaining read. If I were you I would just take the expressions of disbelief as proof that you are exceptional.
Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
This was a great read. You are so brave! I would've lost my damn mind when I saw those eyes in the dark.
Good for you ignoring the haters. I've had people mind my business on easy hikes where it is virtually impossible to get lost, most recently Misery Ridge at Smith Rock.
Good for you ignoring the haters. I've had people mind my business on easy hikes where it is virtually impossible to get lost, most recently Misery Ridge at Smith Rock.
Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
Agreed my day pack and backpacking pack would never even come close to qualifying as Ultra light but it's how I usually prefer to travel. A few years ago I also did the Hood loop in a day (5:30am to 9:00pm) just to see if I could but I've no desire to do it that way again
- A. Hugh Jass
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Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
I enjoyed reading your full post on your site. Good for you. I will be doing Timberline as a single-day-night effort starting tomorrow. I'll be moving at the speed of hike for most of it, but I do run the downhills.
I got a kick out of the people at Newton getting freaked out about your river crossing. It is understandable. I saw a woman trail running the Kaleetan Peak climber's trail in WA in mid-July. She had a small pack, no poles, the trail was very steep, muddy, and very slippery. I was concerned at first glance, but as she moved in front of me, I quickly realized she had done the Kaleetan trail and peak scramble many times before.
She moved so unbelievably fast and so perfectly on the difficult conditions on the trail. It turned out she was Kaytlyn Gerbin and she said, as she passed, she was going for an FKT. She nailed it, BTW ... beating the fastest man too. (see her in my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10pdDt4RE9Q).
I'm looking forward to doing the Timberline Trail again tomorrow, and like you, doing some night time river / creek crossings. Again, thank you for sharing - it was a great report and a super-solid effort!
I got a kick out of the people at Newton getting freaked out about your river crossing. It is understandable. I saw a woman trail running the Kaleetan Peak climber's trail in WA in mid-July. She had a small pack, no poles, the trail was very steep, muddy, and very slippery. I was concerned at first glance, but as she moved in front of me, I quickly realized she had done the Kaleetan trail and peak scramble many times before.
She moved so unbelievably fast and so perfectly on the difficult conditions on the trail. It turned out she was Kaytlyn Gerbin and she said, as she passed, she was going for an FKT. She nailed it, BTW ... beating the fastest man too. (see her in my video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10pdDt4RE9Q).
I'm looking forward to doing the Timberline Trail again tomorrow, and like you, doing some night time river / creek crossings. Again, thank you for sharing - it was a great report and a super-solid effort!
Re: Timberline Trail - nighttime loop 8/2/19 - cougar stalking
Great post, Ella. Encountering predatory animals closer than at a comfortable distance is always a bit "interesting," so kudos to you for keeping it together when the cougars started to follow you! Also, great insight into your experience dealing with fatigue and lack of sleep - it's fascinating to discover how one's brain can go haywire under abnormal conditions, and a good learning experience about how easy it is to make mistakes when you're not thinking clearly.
I think this was obvious to almost everyone. Sorry for all the douche bagels you appear to have encountered out there ("I'm not sure you understand what the Timberline Trail is," wtf?). It's also a bit disappointing to see some of that "scolding" manifest here, guys...
I think this was obvious to almost everyone. Sorry for all the douche bagels you appear to have encountered out there ("I'm not sure you understand what the Timberline Trail is," wtf?). It's also a bit disappointing to see some of that "scolding" manifest here, guys...
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