ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

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Brian95
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by Brian95 » December 20th, 2018, 11:29 am

Bosterson wrote:
December 20th, 2018, 10:35 am
It's not a solution to overcrowding (or in this case just car congestion), it's the creation of socioeconomic tiered access. :x
I've submitted a rather scathing response on ODOT's feedback system, driven mostly by these equity concerns. I encourage everyone here to do the same.
Guy wrote:
December 20th, 2018, 7:39 am
I'll send in feedback but so often public comment is selectively used, comment they agree with is sighted, comments they disagree with is ignored.
I don't have much faith that our commenting will make a difference, but the more people who make our displeasure known, the greater shot we have at defeating this regressive toll.
Aimless wrote:
December 20th, 2018, 11:13 am
If they're going to do this, then all the new revenue should be dedicated to running a free shuttle bus service with frequent stops at all of the 11 parking locations, and plenty of free parking at the terminus.
I definitely agree with this, and have noted as such in my response to the plan. I don't see it happening either, but I think we have the greatest likelihood of succeeding if we make our support for alternatives (e.g. expanding the shuttle service) known.

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Bosterson
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by Bosterson » December 20th, 2018, 11:34 am

Guy wrote:
December 20th, 2018, 11:22 am
This is all about revenue generation under the guise of fixing a problem that is not year round and could easily be solved in many other ways.

What Bosterson said too
Can you imagine having to pay $15 just to park at one of the waterfalls down there?!? This is like Uber surge pricing. It's not a solution to overcrowding (or in this case just car congestion), it's the creation of socioeconomic tiered access.
I'm still skimming through their report: it seems like their $5-15 range may be based on the parking being timed? So parking in the Gorge would be like parking downtown - an hourly rate vs a daily rate, etc.
Page 3 of ODOT report (emphasis added) wrote:Priced parking strategies could help to accelerate turnover and could help to even out demand when paired with reservations. Priced parking would create a revenue stream to fund parking management activities and potentially other activities to improve access and mobility in the corridor including transit service.
Page 5 of ODOT report (emphasis added) wrote:Scenario 2 does not provide alternatives to full parking areas, but would implement tools to even out parking demand through reservations and provide incentives for turnover through variable pricing.
Page 16 of the ODOT report (emphasis added) wrote:Parking prices could vary based on location, season, and time of day. For example, parking could be more expensive on a summer Saturday than a fall weekday. (A-28) The revenues from parking could be managed by the Transportation Management Association (A-35) in the baseline for both scenarios, and reinvest the receipts into transit and other upgrades along the corridor.
It sounds like the revenue generation would be used to pay for transit improvements. (Though who knows - maybe ODOT is trying to earn back the shortfall of having to pay people overtime to sit in cars 24-7 at Gorge trailheads for the past year. :roll: ) This is stupid though: funding for infrastructural improvements should come from existing government revenues (and if such revenues are insufficient, that should be addressed via the government's normal budgeting process). Societally we are setting the precedent that users will pay for public works, and as more money is needed, more is demanded: this leads to proposals like the $70 National Parks entry fee to pay for the backlog of maintenance.

Re above, it's inconceivable that "congestion" would need to be addressed via parking fees on a "fall weekday." I was at Horsetail Falls TH at 7:30 on a Friday a few weeks ago and there were zero other cars for the entire time we were there. Having to pay to park would be asinine.
Will hike off trail for fun.

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retired jerry
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by retired jerry » December 20th, 2018, 12:42 pm

Yeah, I don't know that congestion has to "be fixed"

Let people know when it's over crowded so they can go somewhere else

You could have alternate parking and transit to trailheads. Or transit from regular Portland mass transit. At some point there are so many hikers it's difficult.

They could develop other areas that aren't so busy now, like highway 26 towards Mt Hood, Clackamas River, highway 26 to the coast, highway 6 to the coast,...

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adamschneider
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by adamschneider » December 20th, 2018, 6:46 pm

That's mostly state-owned land in there... I wonder if you'd be able to use an annual Oregon State Parks pass.

Thuja
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by Thuja » December 21st, 2018, 12:03 am

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Last edited by Thuja on March 8th, 2019, 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Peabody
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by Peabody » December 21st, 2018, 7:34 am

"I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail." -Abraham Maslow

"ODOT gonna ODOT" - unknown millennial

Yep, the gorge gets crowded and once again every government agency wants to "fix" the issue using their particular tool. In this case it's fees, tickets, over thinking and over planning.

So here's what I would do..............

Convert the Historic Highway into a one way street west to east. Turn the unused lane (the one closest to the waterfalls) into parallel parking and a walkway for the entire length between Vista House and Ainsworth.

Ta-Da all problems solved.
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retired jerry
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by retired jerry » December 21st, 2018, 7:52 am

that's a good idea :)

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Guy
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by Guy » December 21st, 2018, 8:27 am

Peabody wrote:
December 21st, 2018, 7:34 am

So here's what I would do..............

Convert the Historic Highway into a one way street west to east. Turn the unused lane (the one closest to the waterfalls) into parallel parking and a walkway for the entire length between Vista House and Ainsworth.

Ta-Da all problems solved.
Yep I had the exact same thought, though maybe begin the one way after Bridal Veil Falls to make it easier on all the folks who live between there and Angels Rest.

Of course this simple solution does not generate any income or new jobs for ODOT.
Some of the proposed solutions like a traffic light at Multnomah Falls and Reserved parking schemes boggle the mind.
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Guy
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by Guy » December 21st, 2018, 8:40 am

Thuja wrote:
December 21st, 2018, 12:03 am
I wrote them a comment, done!

How about (free) MAX service all the way into the gorge? That’s what I’d like to see.
Yikes! The last Max line cost about $205 million a mile (2013)! Approximately 20 miles from the Gresham Transit Center to Multnomah falls = $4.1 Billion at 2013 prices! That's about a $1000.00 each from every man woman and child living in Oregon

Plus Max barely manages to run on a bad winter's day in Portland let alone the Gorge :D
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Thuja
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Re: ODOT proposes fees for Gorge waterfall corridor

Post by Thuja » December 21st, 2018, 1:39 pm

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Last edited by Thuja on March 8th, 2019, 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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