Crossing Eliot Glacier (safely)

[Eric Peterson]

Adam, very nice website! Didn't realize the owner/creator of GPS Visualizer posted right here
on PH!

Anyway users can download those track segments directly from this map? :

http://adamschneider.net/misc/forums/El ... ssing.html

Love using your site, thanks!

[retired jerry]

I was just up there.

Maybe the ropes are best - I did that a few years ago and talked to a number of people that just did it a week ago.

I started out doing Rainrunner's "S" route.

I did the bottom leg of the "S", and then I was a couple hundred feet from the top of the moraine so I just went straight up the "Too loose and prety steep" slope. I didn't die or anything but on each step, there's a little mini-slide of material. Occasionally this included a large boulder. There were huge boulders around that could have been under-mined and then slid themselves, and if I was in the way it could have been bad.

I think Rainrunners "S" route is best if you're doing the high route.

Everywhere you walk is loose, recently deposited material that moves around when you step on it.

[Peder]

Maybe the ropes are best - I did that a few years ago and talked to a number of people that just did it a week ago.

I agree Jerry! The lower crossing at the ropes is the most straight forward. This is an off-trail route and finding the way in the Eliot canyon is not easy. Once down the rope (and this applies to either side), it is important for people to go about 0.2 miles upstream to make a safe crossing of the torrent. The stream is too deep and wide to safely cross in the gorge between the ropes, therefore it is essential to go up to the next plateau where the stream is broader and much easier to cross.

The upper crossings all involve glacier travel, so these are dangerous to all who are not knowledgeable in this field.

[retired jerry]

The upper crossings do not envolve glacier travel is you stay low, half way from Cooper Spur side, then follow "S", or go straight up the "loose but less steep" place.

[Peder]

The upper crossings do not envolve glacier travel is you stay low, half way from Cooper Spur side, then follow "S", or go straight up the "loose but less steep" place.

Jerry - I guess that depends on your definition of glacier travel. To me glacier travel is whenever you are on a glacier. If a glacier is snow covered, there can be hidden crevasses and one should travel roped in. A bare glacier, such as the lower Eliot Glacier, does not require a rope as any crevasses are either covered in rubble or visible. In my opinion the extent of the Eliot Glacier is as follows:

Eliot Glacier

So if you cross above the glacier snout, where the Eliot Branch stream comes out of the ice/rubble, you are technically on a glacier. Guy's report from 10 days ago, where we used the upper crossing, includes images of bits of glacier ice (see the second picture or his video). Therefore the upper crossings do not include a stream crossing, as the water is flowing under the rubble-covered glacier. The upper crossings are safe, as long as people stay on the rubble and/or glacier ice.[Note below] There are the usual dangers associated with rubble and large rocks that may move under people's weight.

My concern with "hikers" wandering around on a glacier is similar to concerns about people boating without any knowledge of what they are doing: So long as the water and weather remains calm it's easy. If conditions change, for example a storm or rapids, then the ignorant is suddenly in danger!

Note: It is obviously essential not to walk on a snow covered glacier without a rope and the required skills. I commented on this earlier in this thread (see post no. 9).

[retired jerry]

Here's a picture from the West side Moraine:

I think you are over-estimating the glacier extent, but maybe you're right:)

I was walking below "Glacier Extent?" on the picture and slipped on my rear, then discovered glacier ice below.

I then went a little lower in elevation and the ice seemed to be gone.

You can see there's no glacier flowing over that cliff so I think there's a place to walk there without walking on glacier ice.

And walking down the moraine just to the left of "Safe Route?" isn't glacier ice underneath - the glacier is flowing to the left of that.

Regardless, I think the safest route is following that "S" curve.

[adamschneider]

I'm really glad I started this thread. People have contributed a lot of different ideas and pointed out the various hazards and pros/cons of each approach. Hopefully those who find this will read the WHOLE thread and decide for themselves which risks/adventures they feel comfortable taking on.

Me, I'll still take glacial ice over loose boulders any day.

[Peder]

I think you are over-estimating the glacier extent, but maybe you're right:)

I was walking below "Glacier Extent?" on the picture and slipped on my rear, then discovered glacier ice below.

This is the thread that keeps on giving!

Revised glacier size!

I may well have overestimated the size of the glacier, so maybe my drawing should be adjusted as shown above. Anyhow, the glacier goes right down to the snout where the Eliot Branch stream discharges. So if you did not cross the Eliot stream on your way across the canyon, you are definitely walking on a (rubble covered) glacier at some stage!

Your "S" curve shaped route is safe, as long as you remain off any snow covered areas. I would think that the lower part of your "S" curve is on glacier, as is the traverse over to the exit trail on the Cooper Spur shelter side.

There is no glacier under the large lateral moraines of a glacier. At one stage (probably about 250 years ago) the Eliot Glacier went right up to the top edge of the moraine. So if you were standing on the top of the moraine around 1750, you could have stepped right onto the glacier, as the ice was several hundred feet thicker. At that time the glacier also extended much further north. Between 1901 and 2004 the glacier has lost about 680 meters in length (ref.). The referenced article also explains the pylons that one occasionally encounters on this glacier: "Fourteen plastic (PVC) stakes were drilled into the ice to measure surface displacement and ice ablation"!

[retired jerry]

Okay, maybe there's glacier ice under there somewhere

I think the bottom leg of the "S" is fairly safe regardless

Regardless, all of that material is recently deposited, so it's very unstable. Even big rocks, when you step on them, move around.

[Peder]

I think the bottom leg of the "S" is fairly safe regardless

Regardless, all of that material is recently deposited, so it's very unstable. Even big rocks, when you step on them, move around.

Jerry - Your route is very safe, including the bottom leg of the "S" (if you abstract from the fact that the rocks move and could hurt you). Bare glaciers, or rubble covered glaciers are safe to cross. What you do not want to do, is to walk on a snow covered glacier, as you may step through the snow into a hidden crevasse.