Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

General discussions on hiking in Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
User avatar
drm
Posts: 6133
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: The Dalles, OR
Contact:

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by drm » November 4th, 2022, 7:47 am

Okay, I couldn't help it. I found this:
This is explained through the concept of isostasy: where the ice is thickest, Antarctic crust has been depressed by as much as 500 metres.
https://discoveringantarctica.org.uk/oc ... glaciation

I would be curious where you got that figure of 11,500 feet. Even if true, it is probably just one spot.

User avatar
adamschneider
Posts: 3710
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:02 pm
Location: SE Portland
Contact:

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by adamschneider » November 4th, 2022, 8:12 am

From Wikipedia:
Averaging at least 1.6 km thick, the ice is so massive that it has depressed the continental bedrock in some areas more than 2.5 km [8200'] below sea level.
Now you know.

BigBear, you sound exactly like a flat-earther: "I can't see it and I couldn't have thought of that, so it obviously can't be true."

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

User avatar
BigBear
Posts: 1836
Joined: October 1st, 2009, 11:54 am

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by BigBear » November 4th, 2022, 8:28 am

Don't throw stones if you live in glass houses. If the ice is sitting in an 11,500-foot deep lake, then it can't raise the level of the ocean because it's land-locked. I'm really tired of all the name calling. The one fact that no one wants to understand is that the earth has been warming for far longer than you want to admit and just changing energy sources won't stop it. Did anyone think about how an ice sheet could potentially be higher than the highest point in Antarctica before I pointed out how deep the hole was, or was everyone just willing to accept the fact that 15,000 feet of ice could be sitting at an elevation (of how many feet)? We keep getting blasted on a daily basis with electric cars will save the world without really considering the cause of global warming. People keep having children and asking others to conserve. Fact-checking? The facts are too contradictory. Two days ago scientists said all of the glaciers will melt in about 25 years (2050). They said the same thing about running out of oil back in 1978, but somehow that didn't happen.

I'm not going to respond anymore because you are more interested in beating someone down than wondering if the media and politicians are giving you the real story. If you can't question the "facts" you're just part of the mob.

Aimless
Posts: 1922
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:02 pm
Location: Lake Oswego

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by Aimless » November 4th, 2022, 10:14 am

I must say that your confidence in your ability to sit thousands of miles from Antarctica, using nothing more than a few numbers, some simple math, your imagination, and your logical abilities to refute the direct observations of scientists who have sophisticated instruments and have actually gone to Antarctica and made the measurements that produced those same few numbers you are basing your reasoning on, is extremely impressive. I seriously doubt that anything will ever shake your confidence in your conclusions.
Last edited by Aimless on November 4th, 2022, 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removed some language after further thought

User avatar
Water
Posts: 1355
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by Water » November 4th, 2022, 12:23 pm

Truly holy crap, I'm not trying to attack or be rude, but BigBear, watching you double down on this is straight up sad.

Like arguing about the humors of the body getting out of balance causing illness with a modern doctor or human physiology expert.

You know they've taken ice core samples 2 miles thick.. like the drill kept going into ice that far... And they know that's not the deepest they could go. They have found subglacial lakes all over Antarctica.

There's thousands of professional geologists and glaciologists who have flown to Antarctica. Studied it. Done remote sensing. Used the full array of human scientific apparatuses to do things like measure shockwaves which travel through the earth...

Holy crap.. gotta go hike
Feel Free to Feel Free

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14396
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by retired jerry » November 4th, 2022, 2:28 pm

This may sound crazy but, this is just Orwellian

The real problem many people have with global warming is they're afraid their cars will be taken away and they'll have to take the bus. Homes have to be kept cold and people wear sweaters. etc.

The more dire the global warming warnings, the worse they fear.

The solution is to assure people that no one will take your car away. Electric cars will be cheaper and better. You'll prefer buying an electric car. etc.

If good electric cars aren't available by 2030 (is that the year they're supposed to ban internal combustion engines?) then that date will have to be delayed. But it's a good goal to motivate a solution.

Trying to shoot down arguments against global warming is futile as demonstrated here.

Global warming deniers are aware of this and are happy to keep arguing against global warming because they're students of Orwell. And Machiavel.

User avatar
drm
Posts: 6133
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: The Dalles, OR
Contact:

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by drm » November 5th, 2022, 7:46 am

Reason: removed some language after further thought
LOL - I have deleted entire posts.

As to the original subject, I wonder if anybody has had the idea of taking a photo of the same meadow year after year and then after 10 or 20 years they can compare? Better idea the younger you are. :lol: I actually have a favorite campsite on the NE side of Adams and have been taking the picture of the same couple of smallish trees for some years now, but probably only 5 years. It's right at treeline at about 6400' and so I would think growth would be slow. They seem to have very thick trunks for their height.
20220829_192125.jpg
Most recent picture of those trees

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14396
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by retired jerry » November 5th, 2022, 8:29 am

Picture of tree 5 years ago?

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14396
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by retired jerry » November 5th, 2022, 8:37 am

I frequently delete posts before hitting submit button :)

Another reason people don't "believe in" climate change is they're worried about what all those oil workers are going to do.

But, we'll continue to need refineries. Replace the oil input with plant based material.

Oil well drillers can drill wells for geothermal. Previous geothermal required finding a place that's both hot and has water, but the new idea is to inject water to make steam and then reinject in closed loop. Then you just have to find a place that's hot. When there's plenty of sun/wind, just let the water sit there and heat up.

User avatar
drm
Posts: 6133
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: The Dalles, OR
Contact:

Re: Sub/Alpine meadows, fires, & climate change

Post by drm » November 7th, 2022, 7:24 am

Here is 2018, four years earlier. Not much obvious growth. But I need to get in the habit of taking it fro exactly the same spot - put the trekking pole out there again.
2018.JPG
2018 camp trees

Post Reply