I hiked the Paradise Park loop from Timberline Lodge yesterday. I noticed a glaring data collection hole for Wilderness permits. I parked myself for about 10 minutes near the Wilderness Permit sign and noticed nobody filled out a permit. I believe they were all PCT thru hikers.
According to this PCTA page, Wilderness permits are not required with a PCTA long distance permit. Free PCTA permits are NOT required to hike the PCT.
I probably passed a good 100 thru hikers. That represents 100 hikers that haven't been counted as Mt Hood Wilderness visitors. Compare that with the 10 or so hikers I passed who were not thru hikers. How can the USFS administer their counting program with such poor data?
There's a lot of missing info here:
What percentage of non thru hikers get a Wilderness permit as required?
What percentage of thru hikers get a PCTA permit?
What percentage of non PCTA permitted thru hikers get a Wilderness permit as required?
What percentage of thru hikers honor their hiking window commitments?
How many people walked past the Wilderness permit sign?
PCT thru hikers and Wilderness permits
- retired jerry
- Posts: 14425
- Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Re: PCT thru hikers and Wilderness permits
maybe when they do the PCT thru hike permit the FS gets the data?
A bigger hole is the restrictions in the Central Cascades wilderness areas. Local hikers are extremely limited in the numbers allowed. No restrictions on thru hikers.
Last year I did a Three Sisters trip. Almost nobody was there locally, but when I was on the PCT I was mobbed. Maybe the worst I've experienced.
Maybe all threads could eventually degenerate into people (me) complaining about the Central Cascades restrictions![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
A bigger hole is the restrictions in the Central Cascades wilderness areas. Local hikers are extremely limited in the numbers allowed. No restrictions on thru hikers.
Last year I did a Three Sisters trip. Almost nobody was there locally, but when I was on the PCT I was mobbed. Maybe the worst I've experienced.
Maybe all threads could eventually degenerate into people (me) complaining about the Central Cascades restrictions
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
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- Posts: 81
- Joined: May 14th, 2020, 6:35 am
- Location: Portland
Re: PCT thru hikers and Wilderness permits
There are a certain amount of PCTA long distance permits available per year. This is 500 miles or longer trips only. I believe the limit is 5,000. I'm sure the FS isn't concerned with exact data, but a general idea.
Plans change. It'd be a fools errand trying to get exact data when you don't have exact measurements in place.
Anyone can fill out the permit, and have an original intention but perhaps it changes halfway into their hike? You aren't going to be able to retrieve the permit portion left in the box.
Plans change. It'd be a fools errand trying to get exact data when you don't have exact measurements in place.
Anyone can fill out the permit, and have an original intention but perhaps it changes halfway into their hike? You aren't going to be able to retrieve the permit portion left in the box.
Re: PCT thru hikers and Wilderness permits
Based on the questions on the wilderness permits, it appears that one of the major reasons for the permits is to tell people where to start looking for someone if necessary. I would imagine that would be hard for a through-hiker, either because they didn't know where they would end up spending the night or because they didn't intend to stop anywhere in the wilderness area. Might that come into play?
- naturallog
- Posts: 52
- Joined: February 2nd, 2016, 9:07 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: PCT thru hikers and Wilderness permits
When you apply to get a PCTA long distance permit, you put in your anticipated start and end points of your hike. This could be Campo to Manning Park, or it could be Etna, CA to Cascade Locks, for example. Purely speculation, but if Mt Hood National Forest was interested, I think they could get an estimate based on permits issued that anticipate traveling through the Mt Hood Wilderness and based on typical completion rates for those completing a thru hike. I think they would ultimately need to do some sort of study to understand the use of the trail through the wilderness, similar to what they did to develop the Central Cascades permit system.
I've had similar experiences described above, where encountering the PCT bubble can put a bit of a damper on a trip. I hiked the Timberline Trail CCW last year and ran into some of the bubble that had flipped up from the Dixie Fire blowing up in NorCal. It was my last night on the trail and it was kind of a bummer being in a trail tent city after camping alone or with a few others. That said, I could've looked for a more stealth campsite, but it doesn't change the experience one has when encountering others whilst hiking.
Maybe they are looking at the numbers, or maybe they are not concerned since it is a relatively small window during the hiking season that the trail is crowded. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if some restrictions pop up in the near future, similar to what the forests in CA have implemented to prevent hikers from flipping back down to the Sierra for peak season down there.
I've had similar experiences described above, where encountering the PCT bubble can put a bit of a damper on a trip. I hiked the Timberline Trail CCW last year and ran into some of the bubble that had flipped up from the Dixie Fire blowing up in NorCal. It was my last night on the trail and it was kind of a bummer being in a trail tent city after camping alone or with a few others. That said, I could've looked for a more stealth campsite, but it doesn't change the experience one has when encountering others whilst hiking.
Maybe they are looking at the numbers, or maybe they are not concerned since it is a relatively small window during the hiking season that the trail is crowded. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if some restrictions pop up in the near future, similar to what the forests in CA have implemented to prevent hikers from flipping back down to the Sierra for peak season down there.
Re: PCT thru hikers and Wilderness permits
Look, man, I'm doing my best.retired jerry wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 8:52 amMaybe all threads could eventually degenerate into people (me) complaining about the Central Cascades restrictions![]()
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
Believe it or not, I barely ever ride a mountain bike.
Re: PCT thru hikers and Wilderness permits
Put it in your signature.retired jerry wrote: ↑August 11th, 2022, 8:52 amMaybe all threads could eventually degenerate into people (me) complaining about the Central Cascades restrictions![]()
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
I hate the U$F$ so much, I've actually considered vandalizing those permit stations whenever I see one. But I'm lazy/forgetful, and never come prepared.
- retired jerry
- Posts: 14425
- Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Re: PCT thru hikers and Wilderness permits
I've always had good experiences with Forest Service employees. I really enjoy visiting USFS land. I always fill out wilderness permits so they can justify expenses for maintenance.
Just get rid of the Central Cascades permits. Stupid idea.
Just get rid of the Central Cascades permits. Stupid idea.