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Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: June 11th, 2021, 1:23 pm
by Water
CHAPTER 87—FEDERAL LANDS RECREATION ENHANCEMENT
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?pat ... ion=prelim
(d) Limitations on recreation fees
(1) Prohibition on fees for certain activities or services
The Secretary shall not charge any standard amenity recreation fee or expanded amenity recreation fee for Federal recreational lands and waters administered by the Bureau of Land Management, the Forest Service, or the Bureau of Reclamation under this chapter for any of the following:
(A) Solely for parking, undesignated parking, or picnicking along roads or trailsides.
(B) For general access unless specifically authorized under this section.
(C) For dispersed areas with low or no investment unless specifically authorized under this section.
(D) For persons who are driving through, walking through, boating through, horseback riding through, or hiking through Federal recreational lands and waters without using the facilities and services.
(E) For camping at undeveloped sites that do not provide a minimum number of facilities and services as described in subsection (g)(2)(A).
(F) For use of overlooks or scenic pullouts.
(G) For travel by private, noncommercial vehicle over any national parkway or any road or highway established as a part of the Federal-aid System, as defined in section 101 of title 23,1 which is commonly used by the public as a means of travel between two places either or both of which are outside any unit or area at which recreation fees are charged under this chapter.
(H) For travel by private, noncommercial vehicle, boat, or aircraft over any road or highway, waterway, or airway to any land in which such person has any property right if such land is within any unit or area at which recreation fees are charged under this chapter.
(I) For any person who has a right of access for hunting or fishing privileges under a specific provision of law or treaty.
(J) For any person who is engaged in the conduct of official Federal, State, Tribal, or local government business.
(K) For special attention or extra services necessary to meet the needs of the disabled.
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: June 12th, 2021, 8:36 am
by Webfoot
Thanks.
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: June 12th, 2021, 12:15 pm
by retired jerry
Maybe that's why the fee for wilderness permits in Three Sisters/Jefferson is zero
There's only a fee for administrative costs
In Olympic National Park they charge $8 per person per night
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: June 13th, 2021, 9:36 pm
by JBC
retired jerry wrote: ↑June 12th, 2021, 12:15 pm
In Olympic National Park they charge $8 per person per night
Plus a $6 reservation fee for the group. Highway robbery if you ask me!
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: June 20th, 2021, 5:54 pm
by BigBear
I'm so glad someone else is noticing that charging a fee for hiking and picnicking is an "unambiguously prohibited" thing. In this thread I see the wording of the Act that makes prohibited. Gotta read that Adams vs. USFS case to appreciate the violation of the law by USFS.
I have no idea how the Golden Age pass can be denied, wonder if the deep pocket of AARP will make this a class action case some day. Since the pass is good for ALL federal land, it must be a bluff by the concessionaires when they have their hand out for your Hamilton.
I've also noticed that beach access to the supposedly public beaches is disappearing quickly. Lane and Tillamook Counties now have $10 fees to park at trailheads, etc. The problem with these county sights is that there are all of these signs, but no where to actually pay the fee. The beaches have, in effect, been privatized because you can't just drop the fee off at a pay center because there are no pay centers. Same with Bayocean Spit - you have to have a parking pass but these are only issued by some divine entity which must make an appearance only when the planets are in alignment.
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: June 30th, 2022, 6:00 pm
by longboard16
The concessionaire fees are really a pet peeve with me. It started years ago at Lost Lake where I had to pay a fee to access a public lake, unless of course I wanted to hike in from outside what seems like “their property”. Then I came across it in 2020 at Laurence Lake if you wanted to access the lake or particular trail. Today I had a encounter at Trillium Lake and now I see the same thing at Frog Lake. Where will it stop? Can the Forest service continue extending concessionaire to other sites?
I have a Senior Lifetime Pass (back when it was $10) and purchased it and on the belief and what I was told, that it was provide access to to all National Parks, Monuments and National Forest lands. Now I have certainly got my monies worth but I have a real issue paying to access public lands that our taxes already pay for. The concept of having privatize lake or trailhead sites just does not feel right. Certainly the FS could negotiate or in this case re-negotiate with the concessionaires to accept the America the Beautiful passes. They do not have to cause additional fees to ATB holders, much less senior citizen ATB holders.
On the Discover the NW web site, which advertises itself as a partner of the FS and sells the Northwest Forest Passes, list several FAQ’s and state the following:
If I have an America the Beautiful Pass, do I also need the Northwest Forest Pass?
No. Your America the Beautiful Pass includes all the benefits of the Northwest Forest Pass.
Now to me that makes it very clear that the ATB Pass works everywhere that the NWF Pass does. Perhaps we bring them into the class action lawsuit.
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: July 3rd, 2022, 12:27 pm
by Waffle Stomper
longboard16 wrote: ↑June 30th, 2022, 6:00 pm
Today I had a encounter at Trillium Lake and now I see the same thing at Frog Lake. Where will it stop? Can the Forest service continue extending concessionaire to other sites?
That's been the case at both locations for a few years. You just didn't get caught.
It's only when it's off season when they aren't chasing down fees. At least in my experiences.
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: July 3rd, 2022, 3:15 pm
by Chip Down
BigBear wrote: ↑June 20th, 2021, 5:54 pm
...picnicking ...
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: July 3rd, 2022, 5:52 pm
by BigBear
Yep, Chip. Amazing how few people read the federal court findings (including USFS). Then again, this is Oregon, and the Legislature had legalized about everything, and the Governor is commuting sentences the hard criminals. Oops, I committed another one of those blunders (wink wink).
...yeah, charging fees for hiking, backpacking and picnicking is specifically stated as a no in the Recreational Enhancement Act. Sadly, the courts used words longer than two syllables when they said, "unambiguously prohibited." I know, shame on me for being able to read and understand when someone (USFS) is violating my rights.
Re: Strange experience at Frog Lake Day Use area
Posted: July 3rd, 2022, 6:04 pm
by Aimless
BigBear wrote: ↑July 3rd, 2022, 5:52 pm
Oops, I committed another one of those blunders (wink wink).
How adorable!
