Explain the forest pass system?

General discussions on hiking in Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
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cunningkeith
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Re: Explain the forest pass system?

Post by cunningkeith » September 10th, 2019, 1:46 pm

McCarter wrote:
July 16th, 2019, 12:45 pm
This means Adams does not control whatever implementation plan created the NW Forest Pass system.
I think that you read Adams too narrowly. The court repeatedly stated that the FS cannot charge people “solely for parking.” Like any case, there are factual distinctions between the fee in Adams and the NWFP. And it would be up to a federal court in Oregon or Washington (or perhaps D.C.) to decide whether those factual differences matter. At its core, though, Adams held that the FS cannot charge users who enter an “area” (even if the area is within striking distance of the standard amenities) if the charge is “solely for parking.” A district court faced with a FLREA challenge to the NWFP could easily feel obliged to follow Adams, notwithstanding factual differences.

In fact, that’s exactly what happened in Fragosa. The FS made the same argument that you’re making: that Adams was about a fee program in a Colorado forest and, therefore, didn’t apply to a different fee program under different facts in California. The Fragosa court didn’t buy it:

“Adams is quite clear. The Forest Service is prohibited from charging a fee solely for parking. If a visitor does nothing other than park, the fee is solely for parking and is, therefore, plainly prohibited by the REA. Adams, 671 F.3d at 1143-44.” Fragosa.

Now, that doesn’t mean the NWFP would definitely go down. The Wiechers court didn’t feel bound by Adams, but the Fragosa court did. So we don’t know what would happen if the NWFP were challenged. But there’s definitely a reading of Adams that would cause a lower court to invalidate the NWFP.

McCarter
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Re: Explain the forest pass system?

Post by McCarter » September 11th, 2019, 1:28 pm

Cunningkeith - I totally agree with your analysis and looks like I went too far with mine. Definitely needed some more qualifiers!! I'd like to think I was reading the case narrowly to illustrate how a court could rule in light of Adams and to point out that other courts are not necessarily bound by Adams. But that sure seems like some convenient revisionist history on my part.

Personally, I think the most reasonable reading of the REA invalidates the NWFP. Doing a deep dive into the topic has only pushed me further in that direction. I just always worry about a court's unfortunate ability to side with rather outlandish arguments made by the government.

I have been hoping for a ticket all season to make a challenge, but Water beat me to it.

Godspeed.

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Chip Down
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Re: Explain the forest pass system?

Post by Chip Down » September 11th, 2019, 7:01 pm

What's the best way to deter a citation? (I mean other than paying for a permit, duh.) I'm guessing if I hang "Adams vs U$F$" from my mirror it will just cause confusion or animosity. Is there any message that might persuade the U$F$ Meter Maid to move along?

McCarter
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Re: Explain the forest pass system?

Post by McCarter » September 12th, 2019, 10:05 am

I'd gladly pay $30 for an "Adams vs U$F$" pass.

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