McNeil Shelter on Borrowed Time :(

[Guy]

The crack above the door on the McNeil Shelter continues to grow. It's only a matter of when now not if it collapses. While I'm sure some here subscribe to it being removed I'm in the save it camp. Probably futile but I'm wondering who I should contact at USFS at least about the possibility of a fix.

Failing that I and a few friends could haul 3 pre cut 6X8s up there!

[retired jerry]

Yeah, I think it should be preserved

What if the door collapsed, would the rest of the shelter collapse also. The similar shelters on Lambserson and Elk Cove have collapsed

Once I hiked up there and it was sleeting. I walked right by it without seeing it because it was so cloudy, and then turned around and eventually found it.

I stayed in it overnight. Fairly comfortable. There are drips through the roof.

Where would the 6x8s go? The roof beams must be collapsing also?

[Guy]

No I don't think it would all collapse at once Jerry but once the rocks above the door go it's only a matter of time before the roof goes. Then it's just a pile of rocks to build cairns with

My thought with the 6x8s was to just frame the doorway bracing the failing door lintel.

[pcg]

My thought with the 6x8s was to just frame the doorway bracing the failing door lintel.

Yes, but that won't fix the root cause, which is that the walls are spreading apart. If you brace the doorway you may in fact create a more dangerous situation in the future, when the crack widens and the rock lintel fails, the bracing may become a precarious booby trap. What really needs to be done is to somehow tie the walls together, much as a roof joist does when it is secured to the walls.
This needs to be a well-engineered solution and the USFS is not likely to have the funds to do it, or the inclination to give permission to volunteers to do it. The more thought that is put into this and the less that is publicly said, the better...

[Water]

don't contact the FS about this. They will give the worst result.

They'll send a crew up for 2 days including a specialist, evaluate it, put a condemned sign on it with a warning that entering is subject to a $1000 fine or some BS. Then they won't do any maint on it, and it'll crumble and be a mess for years. Then they'll talk about a permit for McNeil Point because it's become way too popular. Then they'll station a FS truck there every day for 3 months of the summer paying a staff of 2 to check the permits and say how chronically underfunded they are to do trail maint or repair historic structures.

that's about a guarantee of what will happen if you contact them. Wilderness folk here will lose it/disagree with my suggestion, but the best option would be to pack up a bag of kwikrete etc and a basin of some sort and fill the crack and other areas. But would have to be done gracefully or you'll make a big stink and the FS will be on a total alert for whoever 'altered the historic structure!!!' causing it harm.

[retired jerry]

That's funny, very creative

I don't think patching it will work, the walls are spreading apart

Have a steel rod or cable going from one wall to the other so they quit moving outwards

[Guy]

I agree the door frame idea isn't a long term fix but I think it would buy some time. Looking at it last Sunday it's moved since last year, it may hang on for a few more years But I also think it could come down tomorrow. The lintel appears to be floating on the right side now.

Agree a couple of wall brace bars through the building are what is needed but the USFS would turn that into a major operation probably spending a 100K or so on feasibility studies and Environmental impact studies first

[Water]

maybe the shadow forest service can fix it..

[drm]

don't contact the FS about this. They will give the worst result.

They'll send a crew up for 2 days including a specialist, evaluate it . . .

Exactly. My guess is that they will eventually remove the roof to prevent it falling on somebody. And I doubt that they are unaware of the situation.

While I'm no expert, my guess is that a "proper" fix requires taking the structure down, labeling each and every rock as to placement, and rebuilding it solidly with the same rocks in the same place in the structure. All in all, something like this requires a dedicated nonprofit group putting out a grant request to foundations. There is tons of money out there for nonprofit structure rehabilitation, but tons of demand too. The real shortage is nonprofit groups to take it on. The FS certainly is in no position to do something like that, but if some group with the proper structure came to it with a proposal, they would be open.

Mt Hood Natl Forest has 1 person who manages all permitted relationships. This goes from Meadows ski area to Tilly Jane and Cloud Cap, and would include this. He's a busy guy. There is another guy who deals with historic preservation - he doesn't do historic preservation, he approves or rejects plans based on whether they follow historic structure regulations.

My personal opinion is to just let it degrade gracefully with age. I'm not against a proper fix if the energy and commitment is there. Speaking of which, the ONC needs 6 volunteers per day every day over a month later this summer to fix the Tilly Jane A-Frame. Any volunteers?

As to taking a bag of something up there to fix it yourself, this reminds me of an article I read. There was an old painting or sculpture in Italy. The owner decided on a quick fix and hired somebody to fix who nothing of it. It now looks like childs cartoon. Apparently the fixer was an illustrator for children's books, not somebody with historic expertise.

[justpeachy]

Oh man, that's too bad.

I highly doubt that the Forest Service has the means to do anything about this. Even if they did, Wilderness Watch would put up a big stink and maybe even sue. That group is dead set against structures in wilderness area (exhibit A). If the Forest Service couldn't save the Upper Sandy Guard Station, I doubt they're going to save the shelter.

There's also precedent for not restoring those shelters. When a tree feel on the Paradise Park shelter in 1994, the Forest Service finished the job and dismantled the whole thing rather than rebuild it.