Recreation Fees and Reforms

[kepPNW]

temporarily overlooking the fact they cant charge us NWFP fees... I had a quick minute and looked up the GPNF. They make a pretty bold statement that “Simply put, the majority- 80-95%- of recreation fees goes right back into maintaining and improving the trails, land, and facilities you use most.”

Keyword: facilities?

Thinking: Kiosks, picnic tables, trash cans, yadda yadda yadda...

[retired jerry]

quoting the non relevant parts won't change anything

[kepPNW]

quoting the non relevant parts won't change anything

Too bad you were born too late to fully embrace the Twitter revolution, huh?

[Koda]

quoting the non relevant parts won't change anything

I see what you did there...

[vibramhead]

In 2014, in Fragosa v. Moore, 17 F. Supp. 3d 985 (C.D. Cal. 2014), a federal district court in California considered a challenge to a Forest Service recreation fee program and said the following regarding the Ninth Circuit's ruling two years earlier in Adams v. U.S. Forest Service:

Adams is quite clear. The Forest Service is prohibited from charging a fee solely for parking. If a visitor does nothing other than park, the fee is solely for parking and is, therefore, plainly prohibited by the REA.

So, while some might argue that the Adams decision is ambiguous, at least one federal district judge thinks otherwise. It doesn't matter whether the 6 required amenities are present at the trailhead. If a hiker parks without using them, no fee is required.

As for me, while I strongly believe Forest Service should follow the law, I also don't think $30 is much to pay for a year of parking at trailheads. And I want to feel free to use the porta-potties without guilt. So, after a couple of years of passive resistance, I buy my NWFPs now.

[drm]

Facilities could include signage. Earlier this year, vandals destroyed all signage, on the road and trail, and the kiosk, for the upper trailhead of the Soda Peaks Trail. I think that if you weren't familiar with it, it would be hard to find without signage. I don't think that trailhead is even a NWFP trailhead as there are no toilets, picnic tables, etc. But I wouldn't be surprised if some NWFP funds help pay for that sort of thing.

On the issue of parking at trailheads with facilities that you don't use, how is anybody to know who uses them?

[kepPNW]

I want to feel free to use the porta-potties without guilt. So, after a couple of years of passive resistance, I buy my NWFPs now.

Well, good news on that front, then! Porta-potties don't meet the requirements of the law...

• (D) that contains all of the following amenities:
  • (i) Designated developed parking.
    (ii) A permanent toilet facility.
    (iii) A permanent trash receptacle.
    (iv) Interpretive sign, exhibit, or kiosk.
    (v) Picnic tables.
    (vi) Security services.

[vibramhead]

I want to feel free to use the porta-potties without guilt. So, after a couple of years of passive resistance, I buy my NWFPs now.

Well, good news on that front, then! Porta-potties don't meet the requirements of the law...

• (D) that contains all of the following amenities:
  • (i) Designated developed parking.
    (ii) A permanent toilet facility.
    (iii) A permanent trash receptacle.
    (iv) Interpretive sign, exhibit, or kiosk.
    (v) Picnic tables.
    (vi) Security services.

Right, I actually looked into that "permanent toilet" question, since a porta-potty wouldn't exactly qualify in most people's minds. It seems likely that Congress had at least vault toilets in mind. I called the Forest Service regional office and asked how they read the law, and their position is that any toilet that's there all year round is "permanent." That seems like a stretch, but so far, no court has waded into that particular quagmire.

[drm]

If a trash can counts as a permanent trash receptacle, then a porta-potty probably counts as a permanent toilet.

I suppose the security services are there to make sure you have your NWFP - properly displayed.

[retired jerry]

I like that, port-a-potty year round is permanent.

The port-a-potty is permanently there

Sounds good to me