Badger Lake Fire

General discussions on hiking in Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
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sprengers4jc
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by sprengers4jc » October 7th, 2015, 4:48 pm

Tolerance does go both ways. A good start on this thread is by not lumping all 'liberals' as anti-hunters, as we don't all belong in that group anymore than all hunters belong in a 'knucklehead' group :).

I called Mt Hood National Forest today, as I had to cancel our Fivemile Butte Lookout reservation due to a health issue in our family. They said that they weren't expecting the fire to spread beyond the boundaries of the wilderness and just closed everything off just in case but mostly because they were concerned about hunters accessing the area and perhaps getting trapped. Sounds logical and hopefully this fire just burns itself out in a few days.

Everyone stay safe out there.
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ThePortlandeer
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by ThePortlandeer » October 7th, 2015, 6:34 pm

Although I've heard of people starting fires with guns, I'm really not sure how that works. It's not like a vehicle that can throw sparks as far as I know, unless they are using that explosive stuff that some target shooters like to see explode when hit.
I don't think it's that rare. The 36 Pit Fire that burned thousands of acres along the Clackamas River and near, and probably into, the Roaring River Wilderness was started by target shooters. http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascoun ... ed_by.html

From my time in the badger creek wilderness I'd be surprised if this were started by guns, but thats speculation. Human caused does seem likely, but again maybe some burning isn't such a bad thing, its a real mess of downed trees over there.
I have no problem with hunting or target shooting, done responsibly.
I think some of the bias on this site against target shooters (less so hunters), or at least my bias, comes from the amount of those blue, red, and yellow bullet casings I seem to find all over the Mt Hood National Forest, and even in places like the Mt Margaret Backcountry unfortunately. Yes I see backpackers camping in areas they shouldn't, and doing other things that make me cringe here and there, but I don't find nearly as many empty backpacker meals, tent pieces, jet boil fuel canisters, and other backpacker gear as I do trash from those who go shooting.

The other thing about target shooting is noise pollution. I know some will agree and some will call me some brand of liberal tree hugger that makes them feel good. The point is, many times I've been deep into the wilderness on Mt Hood and the echoes of rapid fire target shooting echoes up canyons quite loudly. Its a shame that my good time in the wilderness doesn't impact others far away from me, but their good time has to impact the good times of quiet hikers and more importantly wildlife, even from miles away.

justpeachy
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by justpeachy » October 7th, 2015, 6:45 pm

ThePortlandeer wrote:Its a shame that my good time in the wilderness doesn't impact others far away from me, but their good time has to impact the good times of quiet hikers and more importantly wildlife, even from miles away.
We're having major thread drift here, but I have to chime in and say that was well put. I totally agree. I have zero tolerance for noise pollution in the wilderness. I simply cannot fathom how so many people have such a strong desire to make SO MUCH NOISE. It's not just target shooters, but inconsiderate and rowdy backpackers as well.

Aimless
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by Aimless » October 7th, 2015, 6:48 pm

Tolerance does go both ways. A good start on this thread is by not lumping all 'liberals' as anti-hunters, as we don't all belong in that group anymore than all hunters belong in a 'knucklehead' group :).

Thank you. I am most definitely solidly in the liberal camp, but hunting doesn't bother me any more than sport fishing -- as long as the hunters follow the many regulations they are required to follow. The 'knucklehead' hunters would be knuckleheads whether or not they were hunters. The two are not connected as far I can tell.

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Koda
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by Koda » October 8th, 2015, 7:04 am

yes, thank you Sprengers for the reminder to treat everyone equally from both sides, we all have different beliefs and respect goes a long way.

I don't disagree with the comments above, shooting trash is a huge problem and will be target shooters own undoing. The red and yellow shells are spent shotgun shells, for some reason lazy shooters don't feel the need to clean those up even though they stand out the most. A while back after the 36 pit fire I checked out a local gun forum and there are many responsible shooters that are aware and active organizing clean up efforts and handing out information, especially around Mt Hood area. The noise pollution could be mitigated by guiding shooters to places away from trails or other recreation areas, this always seemed a no brainer to me but I'm also a hiker and a map nerd. Yeah, the subject stands out to me but its been in the lime light more and more on here the past couple years and hearing the comments has encouraged me to be active with cleaning up after the lazy shooters.


back on subject it doesn't look like this fire will be devastating (?), hopefully some rain will make it over the crest. I'm still hopeful it will thin out the brush understory and open up some more tree skiing I just wish we had snowy winters like we used to I haven't skied in there in over 2 winters because of the low snow.

Cheers everyone.
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drm
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by drm » October 8th, 2015, 7:14 am

If the fire is all stuck in the wilderness, then I have to wonder why they are spending money on helicopter drops. There is a lot of steep terrain so the fire could run uphill pretty quickly. But fires don't run downhill the other side that quickly (i.e. towards SR 35) and the east winds were forecast to end pretty soon after the fire started. Seems to me that all the effort required was to reinforce fire lines at the ridgetop, which in that case would be the road that passes by Gumjuwac Saddle.

If the fire had started low in the wilderness and the east winds continued, there would be little to stop it from reaching the lake, and the lookouts would be endangered. But that was not the case.

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Paul
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by Paul » October 8th, 2015, 7:23 am

Personally I think the FS is under fire from the Canyon Creek fire. The people were NOT happy they did the normal FS thing and let it burn because it was in the wilderness. Then the winds came and burned down 40+ homes.

I was at that fire when it burned towards Prarie City and we lost 3 homes. The land owners were NOT happy.

At the end of the season, it would be good PR if they threw a lot at this one.
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retired jerry
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by retired jerry » October 8th, 2015, 7:49 am

"The land owners were NOT happy"

They live next to forest where there's a fire danger. They expect the FS to protect them.

They're probably also opposed to government spending on other programs, don't want the government messing with them,... :)

Always easier to address short term problem - fighting a fire, than coming up with a long term plan for making developments more fire-proof. If someone has a shake roof and trees growing right up to their house, for example, they shouldn't expect to be protected from fire.

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Paul
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by Paul » October 8th, 2015, 8:51 am

retired jerry wrote:"The land owners were NOT happy"

They live next to forest where there's a fire danger. They expect the FS to protect them.

They're probably also opposed to government spending on other programs, don't want the government messing with them,... :)

Always easier to address short term problem - fighting a fire, than coming up with a long term plan for making developments more fire-proof. If someone has a shake roof and trees growing right up to their house, for example, they shouldn't expect to be protected from fire.
This may be a little raw for me, so I apologize in advance.

A coworker said something very similar to me right when I got back from this fire. Right after sitting with, and getting to know pretty well, the homeowners of the houses we tried to protect that week. One owner had been setting back up the electrical down in the Canyon Creek area, and his wife and daughter were both firefighters, and they all had to come back to get their stuff before they lost their home he hand built.

The coworker said, "that's what they get for building in a wildland interface." You do know that outside the metropolis of Portland, and the other larger cities over here, the entire STATE is a wildland interface? People grow food, they have ranches with grass. There were 50 mph winds that morning that blew the fire 2-4 miles out onto the grassy flats. They evacuated the entire city of Prairie City.

What are you going to do, make your house out of concrete and surrounding 2 acres out of asphalt? Easy to say from the confines of a west side neighborhood. :?
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retired jerry
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Re: Badger Lake Fire

Post by retired jerry » October 8th, 2015, 9:43 am

Good point, I didn't mean to be insensitive to people that have lost their home

It's not "anyone's fault". We're where we are and can only look forward.

Just seems like it would make more sense to spend money helping to make developments more fire proof. You can't be 100% but you could make it a lot better. Maybe some developments will not be possible to harden, like an isolated cabin, but you could at least advise the people how to improve things.

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