Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

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aiwetir
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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by aiwetir » November 16th, 2017, 9:35 am

Does the National Map differ from the USFS map much other than being generally unreadable and useless? :lol:
- Michael

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adamschneider
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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by adamschneider » November 16th, 2017, 9:54 am

aiwetir wrote:Does the National Map differ from the USFS map much other than being generally unreadable and useless? :lol:
It's probably drawing from the same database... but when tracing needs to be done (like with streams, where there's no Strava data), I find the USFS maps cleaner than USGS — especially the horrific USGS layer that's built into Strava's interface.

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aiwetir
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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by aiwetir » November 16th, 2017, 12:23 pm

I can import the shape files with JOSM, no tracing needed. The only hold up is when there are existing streams and then checking that the nodes all connect to each other properly.

When I added the tributaries later, the nodes were connected. I didn't expect that because they were different imports.

Re: "intermittent", I don't have any way to determine the seasonal nature of any of these waterways that I don't personally know or run across during the summer so I'm not comfortable changing the tag

I also put almost all logging roads that are on maps decommissioned or not. My opinion is that if it was on a map or was mappable at any point and when they have a method to show roads based on age, we can sort it out. Maps have no judgement.

I'm registering for my GIS certificate tomorrow, so we'll see what my instructors have to say about OSM/decommissioned roads/intermittent streams.
- Michael

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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by adamschneider » November 16th, 2017, 12:35 pm

aiwetir wrote:I also put almost all logging roads that are on maps decommissioned or not. My opinion is that if it was on a map or was mappable at any point and when they have a method to show roads based on age, we can sort it out. Maps have no judgement.
I think that's a very bad idea. There are ways to get driving directions using OSM data (Maps.me or GraphHopper, for example), and if you include decommissioned or extremely sketchy roads, then people could get blatantly wrong — or even dangerous — directions.

If you must include roads that may not exist any longer, I'd leave them disconnected from the rest of the road network so that no one gets routed on them. Or at least mark them access=private or access=no or vehicle=no or something like that.

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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by Webfoot » November 16th, 2017, 1:59 pm

I'm not nearly as deep into this stuff as the two of you are but I have a stake in this as I often use the OSM as my primary navigational resource.

The issue of decommissioned roads has surely been discussed, e.g https://help.openstreetmap.org/question ... delete-tag and I would think there would be a common practice for such things. Without knowledge of that I would think that smoothness=impassable and vehicle=no would be appropriate tags, among others.

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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by aiwetir » November 17th, 2017, 12:07 am

I suppose I should have mentioned that most of them are short spur roads, dead ends, or behind gates and none of them have ever had any reason to be routed onto unless you were trying to get to the end of that particular road. They are almost all tagged highway=track which fits the convention. I did a large section of the state forest on the Olympic Peninsula that are just highway=road but titled Unknown Road because there was already a chunk of stuff labeled Unknown Road and it seemed better to match the convention and make it possible for someone to batch fix the stuff if they wanted.

I notice north of Aberdeen, that someone has put all the hydrology onto the map, so I think I'll be working on that over the winter since a lot of the hiking trail work I've been doing is getting wrapped up.

It also seems some agencies or person are putting forest roads onto the map in large batches in Washington with no regard to the open/closed nature or navigation pitfalls. It's similar to putting streams on the map with no way to know if they are seasonal or not.

The navigation bit is very tricky because it depends on the app or software accessing it and their implementation. For instance one app I use won't route me past a gate or on a road labeled track via car but will route me on a bike or walking, but others like Graphhopper seem to route you down anything.
- Michael

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aiwetir
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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by aiwetir » November 18th, 2017, 7:01 pm

I added all the hydrography in Trapper Creek today and finished up the Beacon Rock area yesterday.

The OSM community is weird, they prefer manually tracing streams over importing data - even knowing that aerials are often not always accurate or interpretable. Either way importing then moving is easier than tracing since many of the things will be in the right place, you just have to make sure.

I'm finding that putting the Google lidar layer is much more accurate than any aerial and is my preferred method when available.
- Michael

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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by adamschneider » November 18th, 2017, 7:05 pm

aiwetir wrote:I'm finding that putting the Google lidar layer is much more accurate than any aerial and is my preferred method when available.
How do you do that?

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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by aiwetir » November 18th, 2017, 11:25 pm

Oh in QGIS, but let me see if I can find one for you

http://tile.stamen.com/terrain/{z}/{x}/{y}.png
- Michael

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Re: Trapper Creek Trails Updated On OSM

Post by aiwetir » November 18th, 2017, 11:58 pm

The only problem with that server is that in some places the terrain isn't visible at the editable zoom.
- Michael

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