Friends of the Gorge Google Earth trails layer

[vibramhead]

Friends of the Columbia Gorge has just released a very comprehensive Gorge trails layer for Google Earth, which includes trailhead POI's.

[pablo]

Friends of the Columbia Gorge has just released a very comprehensive Gorge trails layer for Google Earth, which includes trailhead POI's.

I know they mean well, but I'm pretty sure these tracks are derived from FS shapefiles which are in turn digitized, apparently, from the known-to-be-wrong USGS trail markings from 24k topos. Moffett Creek trail is wrong, Herman Creek trail is missing the lower segment, Nick Eaton is wrong, Wyeth is wrong. There are errors in trail names. I'm inclined to say that really, if you can't do it right don't bother. EPs Gorge Mapset+ has actual GPS tracks of many gorge trails (it is also polluted with the USGS trails but at least GPS tracks are in there) and is a better resource IMO. Missing are use trails like Rock of Ages and Ruckel Ridge - I can understand these omissions, but still.

Any person or group promulgating the FS shapefiles for trails are not doing anyone any favors, some are close some are not and without a GPS track from a reliable source you will not know what is bad and what is not. Don't use them.

Even the trailhead POIs are wrong, the Wyeth TH location is laughable (FS is trying to decommission the use trail starting from that location).

Sorry, I got to call this one out, they should know better.

--Paul

[Peder]

I know they mean well, but I'm pretty sure these tracks are derived from FS shapefiles which are in turn digitized, apparently, from the known-to-be-wrong USGS trail markings from 24k topos.

Good point Paul! At first sight I thought it was a labor of love, but all the errors from the USFS trail maps have just been transposed into GoogleEarth. I found a number of mistakes and omissions. One shown trail puzzles me: The "Butcher Knife Trail" from the south end of Lost Lake to Lost Butte, does that trail actually exist?

Interestingly, the disclaimer that comes with the Google Earth Application mentions PH! Bold highlights by me:

"Disclaimer: Friends of Columbia Gorge and Portland Hikers make no expressed or implied warranties (including warranties of merchantability and fitness) with respect to the character, function, or capabilities of this product or its appropriateness for any user’s purposes. In no event will the Friends of the Columbia Gorge or Portland Hikers be liable for any incidental, indirect, special, consequential or other damages suffered by the user or any other person or entity whether from use of the product, any failure thereof or otherwise. While we make every effort to fact-check, information found here should be considered anecdotal. You should cross-check against other references before planning a hike. Trail routing and conditions are subject to change.

If you notice errors on this page: please contact us.

Map created on behalf of Friends of the Gorge by ..."

[pablo]

Thx Peder, I did not see the disclaimer and contact info, I'll send them a note informing them on the error of their ways. The way to do this GE application is to start at the top of the list of trails and work your way down making callouts for GPS tracks you don't have. Pretty much what EP does for the gorge mapset.

I just checked a couple of the newer FS trail maps that recently appeared with new trail descriptions on the MHNF web site - the ones for Moffett Creek and Wyeth are clearly using updated trail information and not the crappy data from the old shapefiles as used in this 3d map fiasco. Actually, the MHNF trail pages are pretty good these days and the maps are all new based on the updated USGS maps. This improved coverage seems to apply to all districts within the MHNF - got to be some updated digital data floating around the FS somewhere.

--Paul

[Peder]

One shown trail puzzles me: The "Butcher Knife Trail" from the south end of Lost Lake to Lost Butte, does that trail actually exist?

Paul - You know anything about this one? If you don't know this trail, I guess that it does not exist!

[pablo]

One shown trail puzzles me: The "Butcher Knife Trail" from the south end of Lost Lake to Lost Butte, does that trail actually exist?

Paul - You know anything about this one? If you don't know this trail, I guess that it does not exist!

The 1938 (and 1946) map shows trail along Butcher Knife Ridge - a lesser standard type trail - I'm not familiar with the area and the only time I've hiked up Lost Lake Butte I do not recall anything going off to the south but then I wasn't looking for it.

--Paul

[Peder]

When I am in the Lost Lake/Lost Butte area, I will take a look for the Butcher Knife trail.

For a moment, I had visions of a Lost Butte loop from the Lolo Pass using the Butcher Knife trail. That idea has been shelved for now.

[Martell]

I'm guessing they added Portland Hikers to the disclaimer since they link to our trailhead pages. Also, a while back we shared some hike data from the field guide with them.

[Lurch]

Definitely some differences. If you want it as a general reference that's okay, but I don't know that I would recommend it for a true navigational aid.

Purple,Yellow, and White are my trails, Red are the others

[maeganj]

I wanted to weigh in here since I helped to create the Google Earth Map. We hired a graduate student to create the map over the past couple of years. What we learned is that there are many different GPS coordinates out there for the same trail. You'd think it was straightforward and consistent from one online trail map to the next but not so. So we tried to map out the best we could given our data. I would appreciate any new data points or help in correcting the map to make it more accurate.

It's definitely not a finished product. We're working on rolling out the next phase with waterfall photos (when one clicks on the waterfall pop-up) and linking it to Friends trail pages and the NW Waterfall Survey webpage.

Yes, we acknowledged Portlandhikers since they helped us to create our trail descriptions. We appreciate that.

Again, any data or corrections are welcomed. We want this to be as accurate as possible and a new resource for hikers to use to better navigate the Gorge. There's no other map like it out there.