Americans - Please Wake Up

Chat about non-hiking topics. The least serious of the forums on the site!
Webfoot
Posts: 1311
Joined: November 25th, 2015, 11:06 am
Location: Troutdale

Re: Americans - Please Wake Up

Post by Webfoot » May 10th, 2020, 8:56 am

I am more inclined to your position than others here it seems. I believe there has been massive government overreach and that people who think this is all a one-time thing trust government far too much, having learned nothing from the "Patriot Act" and other prior overreach which we still suffer.

HOWEVER, I believe you are very mistaken in thinking "It's [just] a corona virus among the various other virus's we encounter every day, and it's not as terrifying as so many believe." There is a lot of disagreement over the actual infection fatality rate (IFR) of this virus, with some early serology studies suggesting IFR is low, but unless these are proven perhaps our best information comes from South Korea. There they have almost completely halted an outbreak of over 10,000 through track-and-trace which would not be possible unless they were catching the vast majority of transmissible cases, and their case fatality rate (CFR) is currently 2.35%. Unless there is a substantial cohort of asymptomatic cases than are non-transmissible, something I have seen no evidence for, the IFR should be close to this figure as well. A 2% IFR combined with a 50% herd immunity threshold (dependent on basic reproduction ratio, still uncertain) means 3.3 million Americans will die before this pandemic burns itself out, unless a vaccine is provided, methods of care improve, or we are able to increase our innate immunity. (I hope for all three.)

On innate immunity we agree that sun and fresh air are very helpful and closures that keep people indoors or concentrated in a few outdoor areas may be costing lives. As Bret Weinstein said: "It is actually dangerous, and it is making the exact problem that is supposed to be solving worse."

Someone once shared a bit of wisdom that has stuck with me: in the long-run you cannot have more freedom than you have responsibility. Sadly many people have acted irresponsibly as seen in crowded Florida beaches, Mardi Gras in New Orleans, large weddings in New York, or a "conga line" up Multnomah Falls. I believe this has directly made the rest of the population more tolerant of the loss of freedoms as they feel "something must be done" despite the fact that politicians and officials have been no less irresponsible.

I too hope Americans "wake up" about this loss of freedom but just as importantly to the loss of individual responsibility that permits it. Moreover we need an independent nation not chained to China for basic necessities like masks and medicine as self-reliance on many levels engenders responsibility.

Speaking of China I suggest you put less trust in the World Heath Organization which appears to be in their pocket. The W.H.O. has made this pandemic worse by repeating the CCP's lies while willfully ignoring the resounding success of Taiwan, the response of which we should all have emulated.

Webfoot
Posts: 1311
Joined: November 25th, 2015, 11:06 am
Location: Troutdale

Re: Americans - Please Wake Up

Post by Webfoot » May 10th, 2020, 9:03 am

johnspeth wrote:
May 9th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Anybody who hides behind a pen name lacks credibility no matter what they say.
One could argue this in a civil place and time but it certainly is not true in an age of politically motivated violence.

User avatar
Charley
Posts: 1448
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: Southeast Portland

Re: Americans - Please Wake Up

Post by Charley » May 10th, 2020, 9:34 am

I just wanted to point out the laughable richness of conservatives complaining about deaths due to poverty, suicide, etc, while having advocated against the very measures (common sense gun control, a functioning welfare state, universal access to affordable medical care) that would have prevented or ameliorated many of these deaths.

Now that Trump has failed to either stop the virus or safeguard our economy, you're whining about all these preventable deaths that your policies made inevitable.

You're crying wolf and I am so tired of it.

User avatar
Bosterson
Posts: 2089
Joined: May 18th, 2009, 3:17 pm
Location: Portland

Re: Americans - Please Wake Up

Post by Bosterson » May 10th, 2020, 10:20 am

Everyone, political discussion is not generally allowed here, and since this seems to be going downhill fast, I'm going to lock it. There are plenty of other places to discuss politics on the internet. :)
#pnw #bestlife #bitingflies #favoriteyellowcap #neverdispleased

Locked