Where is the rage?

Chat about non-hiking topics. The least serious of the forums on the site!
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Waffle Stomper
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Where is the rage?

Post by Waffle Stomper » January 20th, 2019, 7:01 pm

With the new Google earth imagery I thought I'd take a tour. I remember the rage against the kids who set the fire. Where is the rage at this? It is so easy to rant against a kid who made a stupid decision, but yet nothing is said about this.
My soap box for the day.

Eagle Creek to Wahtum Lake and clearcuts.
Wahtum lake.JPG
Wahtum Lake and clearcuts.
Wahtum Lake google capture.JPG
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

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aiwetir
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by aiwetir » January 21st, 2019, 1:22 am

I believe that's Weyerhaeuser land east of Wahtum.

Looking at aerial photos of clearcuts is almost a daily thing for me and I've been trying to do my very small part to preserve old growth for over 20 years now. I can tell you there's not much that can be done until we can motivate the masses to make a stink. Remember pink slime? People got outraged about it, it went away for a while, does anyone know if it stayed away? Do we actually need pink slime to feed the masses their crappy burgers? What if we stopped logging on public and or private land altogether? Would we have enough wood to feed the masses their toilet paper?

I know we need wood, I'm not sure we need pink slime. Yeah, people are fickle.
- Michael

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Waffle Stomper
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by Waffle Stomper » January 21st, 2019, 6:43 am

I'd have to be naive to be surprised at the clearcutting, but what shocked me was the amount of bare land in comparison to the fire.
We need to harvest wood, there is no realistic way of getting around it. But to see how well nature selectively harvested the forest as opposed to stripping the hillsides bare, is a lesson we can learn.
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

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retired jerry
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by retired jerry » January 21st, 2019, 7:10 am

timber harvesting - you remove the wood

forest fire - the remains stay in the soil to support future growth

I'm all for sustainable harvesting. You need to look at big mammals because they are at biggest risk. Determine what habitat is required for long term sustenance. You need enough animals to provide genetic diversity. Timber harvesting plans flow from that. You can harvest some trees from land in a way that also supports plants and animals.

"They" argue you need clearcuts because Douglas Fir won't grown back otherwise, and then do large clearcuts because it's easier. Like in those photos. Small clearcuts are probably better.

There was some documentary on PBS about harvesting smaller trees allowing the bigger trees to grow better. As opposed to common practice of harvesting bigger trees because they make more money, but this makes the forest less healthy. That's what they mean when they say "thinning" - harming the forest but giving a name that sounds like it's good.

justpeachy
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by justpeachy » January 22nd, 2019, 8:09 am

Oregon Wild released this last week:

New mapping tool shows shocking extent of logging across Oregon
https://oregonwild.org/about/blog/new-m ... oss-oregon

timbernet
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by timbernet » January 22nd, 2019, 1:28 pm

It is sad when I look on Google Earth for waterfalls and then you find that the land they are on is gated by timber companies and it takes a $300 permit for you to get in there...

I am all for private property rights and we need lumber, but it is sad the amount of beautiful land we can't access that borders up to National and State forest.

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adamschneider
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by adamschneider » January 22nd, 2019, 5:07 pm

timbernet wrote:
January 22nd, 2019, 1:28 pm
It is sad when I look on Google Earth for waterfalls and then you find that the land they are on is gated by timber companies and it takes a $300 permit for you to get in there...
It's not ALL timber companies. Weyerhaeuser is probably the worst offender in this department; in contrast, Stimson Lumber (Angora Peak) and SDS Lumber (Spirit Falls) do allow recreational access.

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BigBear
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by BigBear » January 23rd, 2019, 12:45 pm

Interesting comparison between an act of arson and a clearcut. Neither of these situations fits into my definition of a scenic forest. One involves bidding for a government contract, putting people to work and hopefully harvesting resources for homeowners (and not resulting in the export of raw materials) and the other involves breaking the law and closing some of the most-popular trails in the region and costing taxpayers how many millions was it?

My outrage with clear cuts peaked with the Reagan administration when the public lands were opened up to Weyerhouser and its goons. my outrage with the arsonist in the Gorge is peaked circa 2017-2022 (hey look, still got 2 1/2 years of anger until the Eagle Creek trail is open to the public again). Sure, I'm not perfect but my biggest catastrophe was more like not separating my laundry or pulling my wife's bulbs when I was weeding. Nothing particularly newsworthy or affecting the millions of people that the fire affected (2M at Multnomah Falls, 1.6M Eagle Creek, 1.2M Wahkeena, 0.8M Tanner Creek, etc).

Sure, the view north of Hood is less spectacular, but at least you can still hike the trail (just look the other direction).

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Waffle Stomper
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by Waffle Stomper » January 24th, 2019, 7:29 am

I'm not certain that there is that much free access to those private lands. Many private unharvested forests are gated, which they have a right to do. Is a commercially harvested forest that is later planted with a monoculture of trees, comparable a wheat field of identical grass, a healthier forest for the environment. Does it promote habitat for as diverse a population of wildlife? What about the treatments to the soil to prevent undergrowth that leach into the soil. Nature's' way may be more diverse.
As far a affecting people the millions of people, the gorge fire is truly an sad inconvenience. Except for the year of the fire, typical tourism continues as evidenced by the traffic control necessary in Multnomah falls. It's barely visible from the road, and most from out of the area don't notice it. Hikers have been forced to look elsewhere, which just might be a good thing to relieve the pressure on the trails. Some of the trails had been experiencing increasing slides and trail damage, this may be the catalyst for new stabilization to begin.
Wildlife dependent on forest fire damage for food and shelter have new territory until the next fire elsewhere clears the next forest. They aren't moving into stripped forestland.
So while we are all folding our laundry the world will keep spinning. It will be interesting to see how the gorge recovers, which it will.
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

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Waffle Stomper
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Re: Where is the rage?

Post by Waffle Stomper » January 24th, 2019, 7:31 am

retired jerry wrote:
January 21st, 2019, 7:10 am

"They" argue you need clearcuts because Douglas Fir won't grown back otherwise, and then do large clearcuts because it's easier. Like in those photos. Small clearcuts are probably better.
So however did the Douglas Fir get here before clearcutting. I've always found that man does it better than nature argument interesting.
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

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