Demise of PortlandHikers

[retired jerry]

I'm still pissed off they changed the name from portlandhikers.com to portlandhikers.org

[Lurch]

With respect to PH and TKO, if PH is "a service of TKO" for financial reasons in order that PH's bandwidth gets paid for, that should be made clear. If PH is "a service of TKO" for other reasons relating to TKO's broader plans for advocacy, "growing its market," etc., that should be made clear.

While PH is a private site, it's unfortunate that issues regarding the site (and their impact on the community on the site) have been presented in a heavy handed way - either donate/join the board, or don't complain. Again, the admins run the site, TKO "owns" the site, but if the membership were able to engage with those aspects of the site more then a lot of general outrage might be avoided.

I don't agree with Payslee that TKO is evil, but her point is valid about a slight chilling influence on speech or actions that don't align with TKO's goals. Instead of being an advocacy mouthpiece, PH is discussion board where people make friends and share information, along with a user-created online guide for a selection of local areas. If some of us would prefer for TKO to keep itself separate from PH, that seems like an issue the community should be able to discuss without being told their voice doesn't matter; otherwise, good, active members of this community will be alienated (Karl) or leave (Payslee).

The purpose of PH should be PH. Period.

To be completely honest, I don't know a whole lot about TKO, nor have I made much of an effort to find out. *However* I think that's where the majority of the problem comes from. Those of us not in the know, don't understand what's going on behind the scenes, and apparently some of those with a bigger picture don't agree with what's happening. People seem to have been mighty quick to belittle peoples genuine concerns about the direction of the board in general, but I think it's something entirely worthy of discussion.

If the TKO is claiming ownership of this site, and in effect claiming credit for this community, than why isn't there more interaction between the two? Outside of threads the only reference I can seem to find about the TKO mission is a single paragraph on the home page and an email address, there's not even a link to their site.

If claims of their refusal to release financial statements are true, especially to "investors", donors, or contributors, that's especially troublesome. Release of a non-profits 3 most recent 1023 and 990 forms are required by federal regulations. They're actually required same day if the request is made in person at their regular place of business, or within 30 days of request by mail. The Oregon DOJ (who overseens non-profit status in the state) would not like that.

I don't think TKO is evil, from the bits that I know about them they do a great service for the community. However if they're claiming ownership of this board, without making it abundantly clear what mission we're vicariously supporting by supporting this board, then there's bound to be problems.

I don't think the problem is over a name change, and I don't think the concerns of people who know far more about the situation should be mocked either. If it's a problem, it's time for a reasonable and rational discussion. Otherwise it's just downright sad, and a sure sign of things to come when an awesome community like this starts ostracizing long time members because they don't agree with the direction.

[Guy]

I don't have much to add to this debate, I'm ambivalent to the name change. I echo some of the concerns Lurch talks about.

The only "meddling" so far that I'm aware of from TKO is when MCDS was asked by Tom to stop posting about his so called "unauthorized" trail work. This was a decision I didn't agree with at the time.

If this kind of TKO influence were to continue or increase then I would say that would be the death of this site & I hope we are not heading down that road.

TKO pays the bills BUT this site only exists because of the content provided by the volunteer contributors (a much smaller number of people than the sites user base). Loose enough contributors & the site dies or becomes far less significant.

Just my 2 cents.

[forester]

If anyone wants to make this site more inviting, first thing I'd do is delete this thread...just sayin'

I don't really care about politics...national politics, state politics, local politics, hiking politics. But, what makes this place special isn't defined by whoever pays for the bandwidth, hosting, domain registration, etc. The people who are a part of the community, both online and off, are what makes this place special.

As a non-Portlander (and probably the 2nd farthest one away from Portland), I didn't really find the name off-putting and I don't remember it causing me to not signup at any point.

This site has been very valuable to me for research and learning new things. Funny enough, though, I think the thing I have spent the most time researching is how to get one of those damn PH buttons...

[Splintercat]

Several folks have asked questions about TKO, and it's a fair point that TKO isn't easy to find on the main page (or anywhere) on the forum -- that's one of many issues on our list for improving the forum, especially the very dated main page. But TKO isn't all that mysterious! Here's the main website:

Trailkeepers of Oregon (TKO) website

....and here's the page about the TKO board -- many of whom post here, and some of you have hiked with:

Meet the TKO Board

So, hopefully, that will ease concerns about a secret society! And when I mention serving on the TKO board (or as a moderator or field guide editor), that's not a flip comment at all -- we ARE all-volunteer, and while it's true that the community wouldn't exist without the members, you can say the same about the volunteers who make sure there's a community to belong to! We're always looking for more help on any of the above, so send me a PM if you're interested.

Several folks also commented on the origins of TKO and the forum, and what came first. Much of that is explained on the TKO website (link above) for those who haven't been there before, but here's the short version: TKO was formed by a group of folks who met on PortlandHikers.com -- the first incarnation of the forum. We wanted the community to do more than share stories and hiking tips, given the current state of trails on our public lands, so TKO was formed at about the same time the forum became PortlandHikers.org to advocate for trails and organize trail projects to help reverse the trend. Jeff Statt gave the forum to TKO shortly thereafter as a way to keep it going in perpetuity, and as a free, non-commercial endeavor.

So, while it's true that TKO "owns" the forum in a legal sense as a 5019c)(3) non-profit, that really means that you, me, and the rest of the community "own" the board. Providing feedback in the form of comments on threads like this is great and informative, as I've certainly read through them (as any self-respecting "money grubber" should... ahem... ), but you can have an even more direct impact on the future shape of the forum by volunteering to help with the field guide, moderate the forum or join the board -- that's the nature of a volunteer organization. There's no "them" in this operation, it's always just "us". Again, I encourage you to scroll through the board roster that I've linked to above to put some faces behind that "TKO" acronym if it's still a mystery to you!

As I said in my opening post (and in the global announcement), the transition on Monday to the new forum name should be a painless for the existing community, and more importantly, it is part of a strategic plan aimed at helping the forum grow and become even more enjoyable and informative to use in years to come. Want to be part of that work? Drop me a line! (...did I mention we're always looking for volunteers..?)

“Optimism is a strategy for making a better future. Because unless you believe that the future can be better, you are unlikely to step up and take responsibility for making it so.”

― Noam Chomsky

Amen to that!

Tom

[Eric Peterson]

Interesting board members!

Thanks for the low down on TKO Tom

Perhaps in a nutshell - the forum aspect of TKO, this, is meant among other things to also be a community to openly discuss all things trail related and maybe push those discussed agendas among itself and other trail related agencies?

[Splintercat]

That's pretty much it, Eric! But I'm going to write up a more thorough history/background on how the pieces fit together (when I have a moment) for the forum -- this discussion underscored the need to move that up my list a bit!

Tom

[Lumpy]

Thanks, Splintercat. I'm always interested in how something got to where I found it.

[raven]

Will portlandhikers.org point to oregonhikers.org or will us memory challenged folks have to adapt?

[retired jerry]

portlandhikers.com used to be redirected to portlandhikers.org, but after a few years, they gave up that domain, and it goes somewhere else now