NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

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justpeachy
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by justpeachy » August 27th, 2019, 7:33 pm

adamschneider wrote:
August 27th, 2019, 3:25 pm
Do they seriously not have a place to buy a day pass at that fancy new trailhead??
Due to vandalism none of the MHNF trailheads have a fee tube to pay at the trailhead. Thieves just rip them out of the ground with their vehicles and steal the money.

justpeachy
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by justpeachy » August 27th, 2019, 7:37 pm

I'm a field guide editor and I'll talk this over with Bobcat, the main person who oversees the field guide. I disagree that the page is incorrect, though. It may be missing a piece of information, but that does not make it wrong. The page also doesn't mention exactly how many parking spots there are in the lot, how many toilet stalls there are, etc. but that doesn't make it wrong.

I will also point out that the FG is an all-volunteer effort with only a few contributors working on it.

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adamschneider
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by adamschneider » August 28th, 2019, 7:54 am

Webfoot wrote:
August 27th, 2019, 7:19 pm
Perhaps we should have a page on the Northwest Forest Pass hyperlinked from the trailhead pages, where details like this could be more thoroughly addressed?
That's a good idea.

grizzlyg
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by grizzlyg » August 28th, 2019, 12:42 pm

justpeachy wrote:
August 27th, 2019, 7:37 pm
I'm a field guide editor and I'll talk this over with Bobcat, the main person who oversees the field guide. I disagree that the page is incorrect, though. It may be missing a piece of information, but that does not make it wrong. The page also doesn't mention exactly how many parking spots there are in the lot, how many toilet stalls there are, etc. but that doesn't make it wrong.

I will also point out that the FG is an all-volunteer effort with only a few contributors working on it.
Hello justpeachy,

Thank you for pursuing this matter.

I've done a bit more research on this, and find that a number of USFS' trail description pages don't mention a specific pass by name in the "Passes" section of those pages, instead simply stating "A valid Recreation Pass is required." The words "Recreation Pass" are hyperlinked to a separate "Recreation Passes" page, which explains all about NWFP and ATB passes. For example:

Here's the USFS page for Ramona Falls, with a link to the Recreation Passes page:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/mthood/ ... ecid=53460

And here's their Recreation Passes page:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/mthood/p ... ev3_036637

Regarding your argument about the semantics of "correctness," I'll point out that the statement "A Northwest Forest Pass is required at Mirror Lake Trailhead" is a patently false statement for anyone holding an ATB pass. It's not just incomplete information, it's inaccurate, misleading information.

With due respect to limited resources, please consider implementing a common "passes" page on the OHFG site, similar what the USFS has done, allowing consolidation of information about the NWFP and ATB pass relative to National Forest trailheads. As an alternative, perhaps the USFS page could be linked directly from OHFG?

Thanks for your attention,
grizzlyg

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aiwetir
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by aiwetir » August 28th, 2019, 4:16 pm

I think it is too much to ask for OHFG to get it right honestly.

Nearly every single trailhead policy would need to be monitored and every wiki page would need to be edited constantly. Even to link every page to the "fees" page would take a lot of editing to make sure all applicable pages had links.

How about we change our verbiage to say there "may be additional fees incurred" or we have an asterisk saying that this site is run by volunteers and we cannot be responsible for constantly keeping track of Forest Service policy and trailhead changes and that each person visiting the trailhead is responsible for their own fees.

This way OHFG would not be spreading patently false, incomplete, inaccurate, and misleading information.

I once ran a small overworked non-profit and when someone had an idea that required some extra work, it was usually suggested that that person do that work if they wanted to see it done.
- Michael

grizzlyg
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by grizzlyg » August 28th, 2019, 6:41 pm

Regarding getting the work done, I am a 30-year IT veteran. I designed, built and maintained company websites during my IT career (among other things). I'd be willing to volunteer to get the proposed changes made.

Regarding the proposed changes (to respond to aiwetir), your criticisms don't correlate. Concentrating the detailed pass descriptions onto a single, common, "Pass Information" page would serve to eliminate the ongoing monitoring and editing of every trail-specific wiki page in regard to pass info. It would only require a simple, one-time edit of each of the trail-specific pages to point to the common page. The "Pass Information" page could also include a disclaimer about accuracy, and a link to the USFS' common Recreation Passes page.

Sleep on it?

cfm
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by cfm » August 28th, 2019, 6:47 pm

I think most people who own and use the ATB pass know it covers NWFP sites.

grizzlyg
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by grizzlyg » August 28th, 2019, 6:57 pm

I disagree; as already stated, I've encountered multiple ATB pass holders over the past year who bought the pass for National Park access and didn't realize that it was valid at USFS trailheads as a substitute for NWFP.

The USFS in our region beats the drum pretty loudly for NWFP, but not so much for the ATB pass. OHFG could help clear up confusion that exists.

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Bosterson
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Re: NW Forest Pass misinformation, omission of America the Beautiful pass

Post by Bosterson » August 28th, 2019, 7:17 pm

As previously noted, the FG is volunteer edited. The suggestion(s) have been noted, but the FG support forum is not meant for extensive discussions of what pass holders do and don't know, whether certain things should be said one way or another in the FG, etc. Grizzlyg - with all due respect, you are a brand new user who appears to have registered specifically in order to advocate for inclusion of the ATB pass in the FG. Your suggestions are noted, but if you are interested in being part of this community, please consider making other contributions here (eg, posting a trip report, discussing trail conditions, etc) rather than arguing with other users about who is "right" about this topic. If you have more you feel you'd like to say about this issue to the FG editors specifically, please feel free to use the Contact Us link on the forum's homepage. The FG editors will discuss your suggestions about how pass info could be communicated, but at this point I don't think there's anything further that needs to be said in the broader forum regarding this topic so I'm going to lock it.
Will hike off trail for fun.

Locked