Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

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kepPNW
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by kepPNW » May 15th, 2018, 6:13 am

Water wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 1:02 pm
'should not go there' sounds like they share your understanding/traditional experience of the place moreso than a codified rule.
retired jerry wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 1:30 pm
I'm just trolling here:

"When the Eagle Creek Overlook group site is occupied, the public should not go in there or around that area."

Is there a regulation or is she just saying it would be nice if people didn't go there?

Is there a sign saying not to enter?

Yeah, thinking the same. If it were an actual regulation, it'd be signed. Horse-hockey...
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retired jerry
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by retired jerry » May 15th, 2018, 7:01 am

But that's okay. The field guide should clearly say not to go there if there are people in the campground.

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kepPNW
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by kepPNW » May 15th, 2018, 8:09 am

retired jerry wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 7:01 am
The field guide should clearly say not to go there if there are people in the campground.
Never having been there, but just reading this thread, one must ask... Would someone even know there are people there before actually walking back? I mean, really... :roll:
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Dustin DuBois
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by Dustin DuBois » May 15th, 2018, 8:31 am

The Field Guide has been updated, my thread's purpose is finished. Thank you bobcat!
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squidvicious
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by squidvicious » May 15th, 2018, 8:53 am

kepPNW wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 8:09 am
Never having been there, but just reading this thread, one must ask... Would someone even know there are people there before actually walking back? I mean, really... :roll:
Well, there is a sign at the gate that says "group reservation area." And the gate can/will be closed. But gates closing off car access are the norm in places like that, and would not indicate to most people that you can't walk in. Similarly, a sign that says the group area is this way would not normally mean it's the only thing that's this way, and you can only come through if you hold the reservation. Particularly if those people are tourists from out of town who know nothing about the site except that the sign says there's an overlook, and there's an interpretive sign at the base telling them about the cool CCC shelter there. An internet search also shows there is (or at least was at one point) a sign that says "Closed 10:00-6:00," which might be reasonably interpreted to mean at other times it's, you know, open. I don't think there are any signs around the lovely staircases that people would naturally want to wander. If you're going to get upset with someone about the private status not being respected, it should be the forest service.

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Water
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by Water » May 15th, 2018, 12:50 pm

Jerry,

I apologize to keep this going, but I believe it is you who is taking out of context. I specifically quoted the entire part from the Judge. Please read the ruling. The judge very distinctly clarifies exactly what we are talking about, yes the FS cannot charge for parking along large swaths of land. ALSO the FS cannot charge for parking at a trailhead with all the bells and whistles if you are not using any of the amenities, and are just parking and then hike.

read the actual discussion of the case, starting on page 8. This isn't my personal take on it. The court is very clear.

http://www.westernslopenofee.org/wp-con ... manded.pdf
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Guy
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by Guy » May 15th, 2018, 12:59 pm

I don't know if they have stopped ticketing folks or not but there have been 2 or 3 reported cases in Oregon now of USFS dropping the charges when a ticketed offender demands a hearing in court.

Anecdotal info, when we returned to the Burt Lake Trailhead around 2:30 last Sunday the small lot was full. A USFS vehicle was there and just getting ready to leave. Several cars did not have a pass but none were ticketed even though they had already dragged the portapotty in for the season!
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retired jerry
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by retired jerry » May 15th, 2018, 1:15 pm

I'd argue it's ambiguous

I don't know what's the matter with me for bringing this up again :)

I have the senior pass that's $10 for lifetime so I don't care personally.

I think it's ridiculous to charge people to park. There's too much overhead collecting the fee and enforcing it. Not to mention the cost of the amenities - people don't very much use the picnic table, garbage, and outhouse at a trailhead. A small amount of my federal taxes should go to pay for trail maintenance and other FS operations.

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Guy
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by Guy » May 15th, 2018, 1:18 pm

retired jerry wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 1:15 pm

I have the senior pass that's $10 for lifetime so I don't care personally.
Those with such a pass should be banned from commenting on such topics ;)
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Water
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Re: Eagle Creek Overlook Hike

Post by Water » May 15th, 2018, 3:40 pm

Jerry,

It's still been a pleasure to 'discuss' this with you, mostly because I know we're eye to eye on about 99% of this. But kudos to you for dragging that line, it will get me every time.

I agree about trailhead amenities, if you've driven to top spur, or whitewater, or pole creek, it certainly isn't to use a shitter, toss garbage, read a kiosk sign, or even to picnic really. It's to hike. The cost to upkeep those amenities (empty trash, hope it doesn't get spilled over/overflow, empty septic, hope it doesn't have trash in it, hasn't been damaged by vandals, etc.) has got to be a major long-term cost. Let alone to enforce. People just want to hike.
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