what to expect from SAR

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jdemott
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by jdemott » March 28th, 2017, 5:08 pm

Lurch and his fellow SAR volunteers throughout the Northwest deserve a huge vote of thanks from all of us hikers for everything they do. Not only do they help hundreds of folks in distress, but their example of the volunteer spirit makes the world a better place for all of us.

Notwithstanding my admiration for their work, I hope never to have to call on them--but I'm glad to know they are there.

Webfoot
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by Webfoot » March 28th, 2017, 10:08 pm

Lurch wrote:I could ramble on this topic forever. I believe I have rambled on here, multiple times, so I'll leave it there and hopefully we can continue a discussion, not just me ranting :lol:
I say in all sincerity that for me your "ranting" is one of the highlights of this forum.

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kepPNW
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by kepPNW » March 29th, 2017, 5:49 am

Lurch wrote:I have no doubts that social media, and this site specifically have resulted in dozens of lost people, and probably hundreds who were temporarily lost but self rescued before SAR was initiated.
So the photos and narration draw them in, ...
Lurch wrote:When they have written instructions with them, they're commonly turn by turn directions that don't match reality. Signs change, are replaced, moved, or additional ones put up that are confusing for us and nearly impossible to keep up on. Most people, without wilderness navigation experience, tend to navigate as they drive. ie: take the second left, then turn right, stay straight, etc... That's great if you're in a city park, and ALL the trail junctions are accounted for, it's terrible when you're in the wilderness,
And the Field Guide gets 'em lost.

Hmmm...
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retired jerry
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by retired jerry » March 29th, 2017, 5:52 am

so would it be better to have no trail guides? online or books?

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kepPNW
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by kepPNW » March 29th, 2017, 5:59 am

retired jerry wrote:so would it be better to have no trail guides? online or books?
I think what he's saying is that narratives don't help much. While most of us "adults" get furious when we click a link only to find two sentences or (worse!) a video, not only do the kids not want to read but wilderness is nowhere near as stable as the built environment so written directions are (at best) good for only a short period of time. If there's not a detailed map or track (to construct your own) offered, yeah, probably better to not have it at all.
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retired jerry
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by retired jerry » March 29th, 2017, 6:47 am

I don't know that a map would change things. Conditions can still change.

I follow stories of lost people. Probably most are starting from a busy place like Multnomah Falls and not using any guide, or anything. Maybe the free paper map that's not to scale or anything.

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kepPNW
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by kepPNW » March 29th, 2017, 8:17 am

retired jerry wrote:I don't know that a map would change things. Conditions can still change.
Conditions change all the time. With a map, you know your options.

Edit: With a good map! Not those cheesy MF handouts...
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Lurch
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by Lurch » March 29th, 2017, 8:36 am

I'm not saying that there should be no trail guides or information online. It's a great help to many many people. However I suspect that people new to wilderness recreation, are attempting "higher difficulty" routes, because they make base assumptions that are incorrect about either it's difficulty, their equipment or their abilities.

We've had multiple people this year alone, get confused and turned around in the foxgloves, and either hopelessly lost, or popping out in entirely unexpected locations attempting to follow FG directions. It also makes it nearly impossible for us to simply give directions and have people walk themselves out if there's nothing else wrong. There's no management of Foxgloves, or BV, there's no "plan," people seem to take it on a whim and go cut a new trail. To be clear, I have zero issue with people going cross country (provided they know what they're doing and what the risks are). I have problems with people cutting new trails, that make the existing network even more difficult to navigate.

Don't even get me started on that freebie map handed out at the lodge! :evil: In fact, I got so pissed off with it that I made my own map that's actually to scale, with a UTM grid, actual trail numbers and distances, printable in b/w in a way that isn't going to hog ink, and fits on a normal sheet of paper. It's not perfect, trails in this case are pulled from USGS (plus a few minor fixes) not GPS tracks, and I intentionally left off some routes.. It's on my to-do list to put the trails where they *actually* are, but that's relatively minor.. I did need to put it on a slight bias in order to fit the gorge reasonably, but it certainly does it's job better than that other "map". We even got a print run done of bandanas with the map section of the below image printed for sale for fundraising and to our own members.

Image
Printable PDF Available Here

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retired jerry
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by retired jerry » March 29th, 2017, 9:05 am

Nice map

Maybe it should extend to the Angel's Rest Trailhead because that's so popular

Maybe identify where Multnomah Falls is, and the lodge/parking area - you have a "P" there but it's not obvious which one

Can I stick it in the field guide?

That is confusing, especially all the Foxgloves and so forth. Maybe they should have more signs pointing back to where Multnomah Falls is

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retired jerry
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Re: what to expect from SAR

Post by retired jerry » March 29th, 2017, 9:07 am

and as always, any specific changes to the field guide are easy to make

that's one thing good about the field guide, it's user driven

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