Those are GREAT firestarters! If you mix some wood shavings/chips/sawdust in with the wax, it will stay lit much longer. We timed it once, and I think we had it burning for over 10 minutes. That burn time allows you to dry out some wet stuff, at least to keep a fire burning. I backpacked once, and we got soaked and used those firestarters to get a fire going and dry out all our stuff.retired jerry wrote:What I like for a fire starter is
You break up an egg carton into individual egg pieces. Rip off the extra cardboard so it's only about 1 inch high. Leave a tab that's a little higher. This weighs 0.05 ounces.
Wrap the outside with foil so it doesn't leak melted wax.
Put paraffin in. Take a knife and carve off some pieces. Don't cut off pieces of your finger. 0.25 ounces for summer or 0.5 ounces for winter.
Turn oven to lowest setting, like 170 F. Let it reach temperature and turn off. Put in tray of egg carton pieces with wax. Let melt - maybe 15 minutes. Make sure all the egg carton soaks up the wax. There can be some pieces of wax not melted as long as they're cemented together.
Take out. let cool. remove foil.
When you use it, rip off tab so there's a ragged edge for easier lighting. I like to make a little platform of small pieces of wood and put the fire starter on top, so any melted wax will flow onto this and it will all burn.
There's enough wax there to get even wet wood burning. A cotton ball with petroleum doesn't have enough BTUs to get wet wood burning. The wax, when cooled isn't messy or poisonous like some other fire starters.
How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
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RobFromRedland
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: WOW! What a ride! - Hunter S. Thompson
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
This is what I carry, you can get them at Freddys. I have not timed them but they list a "strong" 15 min burn timeRobFromRedland wrote: Those are GREAT firestarters! If you mix some wood shavings/chips/sawdust in with the wax, it will stay lit much longer. We timed it once, and I think we had it burning for over 10 minutes.
http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/prod ... d_products
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
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Grannyhiker
- Posts: 4598
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- Location: Gateway to the Columbia Gorge
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
An Esbit cube is part of my first aid kit. It could work as a fuel substitute (if I run out of fuel or the stove goes kaput) or it could dry out kindling and small wood for fire-starting.
Admittedly, I've never had to use it. Instead, I rely on keeping my insulating gear dry so I can warm up inside of that.
Back in my college days (I went back east my first year), I was told that part of the the Maine Guide test was to make a fire out of a log that had been sitting at the bottom of a lake. With no fire starter. I really don't know if that's true or if my leg was being pulled, but I suspected the latter. Also, they didn't say how long the log had been in the lake. If it was only overnight, the inside of the log would still be dry and, of course, an axe was permitted. You can find a lot of reasonably dry wood inside of a log, and of course the axework really warms you up!
On the annual Colorado horsepacking trips my parents and I used to take back in the 1950's, we had one year in which it rained all day, every day for the first two weeks of the trip. About 4 pm, just for variety, we'd have a cloudburst with several inches of hail. However, we managed to make a fire every night thanks to a small axe (27-inch handle) and a folding saw. Sometimes we had to cut down standing snags to do this, which of course these days is definitely not LNT. If the wood was really soggy, we used something called Heattabs, very similar to Esbit.
Admittedly, I've never had to use it. Instead, I rely on keeping my insulating gear dry so I can warm up inside of that.
Back in my college days (I went back east my first year), I was told that part of the the Maine Guide test was to make a fire out of a log that had been sitting at the bottom of a lake. With no fire starter. I really don't know if that's true or if my leg was being pulled, but I suspected the latter. Also, they didn't say how long the log had been in the lake. If it was only overnight, the inside of the log would still be dry and, of course, an axe was permitted. You can find a lot of reasonably dry wood inside of a log, and of course the axework really warms you up!
On the annual Colorado horsepacking trips my parents and I used to take back in the 1950's, we had one year in which it rained all day, every day for the first two weeks of the trip. About 4 pm, just for variety, we'd have a cloudburst with several inches of hail. However, we managed to make a fire every night thanks to a small axe (27-inch handle) and a folding saw. Sometimes we had to cut down standing snags to do this, which of course these days is definitely not LNT. If the wood was really soggy, we used something called Heattabs, very similar to Esbit.
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
Another good thing to put inside the cavity of each egg carton segment is a big ol' fluffy cotton ball. Or put two cotton balls. They'll absorb wax and act as a nice wick. You can also put shredded paper in there (from all that junk mail that floods your mailbox, lol)RobFromRedland wrote:Those are GREAT firestarters! If you mix some wood shavings/chips/sawdust in with the wax, it will stay lit much longer. We timed it once, and I think we had it burning for over 10 minutes. That burn time allows you to dry out some wet stuff, at least to keep a fire burning. I backpacked once, and we got soaked and used those firestarters to get a fire going and dry out all our stuff.retired jerry wrote:What I like for a fire starter is
You break up an egg carton into individual egg pieces. Rip off the extra cardboard so it's only about 1 inch high. Leave a tab that's a little higher. This weighs 0.05 ounces.
Wrap the outside with foil so it doesn't leak melted wax.
Put paraffin in. Take a knife and carve off some pieces. Don't cut off pieces of your finger. 0.25 ounces for summer or 0.5 ounces for winter.
Turn oven to lowest setting, like 170 F. Let it reach temperature and turn off. Put in tray of egg carton pieces with wax. Let melt - maybe 15 minutes. Make sure all the egg carton soaks up the wax. There can be some pieces of wax not melted as long as they're cemented together.
Take out. let cool. remove foil.
When you use it, rip off tab so there's a ragged edge for easier lighting. I like to make a little platform of small pieces of wood and put the fire starter on top, so any melted wax will flow onto this and it will all burn.
There's enough wax there to get even wet wood burning. A cotton ball with petroleum doesn't have enough BTUs to get wet wood burning. The wax, when cooled isn't messy or poisonous like some other fire starters.
Don't laugh, but in my pack I have the following fire-related items:
windproof lighter
storm matches
flint striker
trioxane tablets
cotton balls rubbed with petroleum jelly
wax fire starter cubes
I also have a list stored in 'Notes" in my iPhone of the gear that is always in my pack that can be used to start fires in a pinch, including hand sanitizer, lip balm, etc. The list also includes the above items as well. I made the list for that moment when I'm stressed and not thinking too clearly... hopefully a glance at that list will spark some idea of the best way to get a fire going.
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retired jerry
- Posts: 14424
- Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
wax has a higher BTU/ounce than wood or cardboard
if you're into ridiculous minimizing of weight, which I border on, then more wax and less wood or cardboard is better. Maybe I'm just into borderline ridiculous analytical minimization
if you're into ridiculous minimizing of weight, which I border on, then more wax and less wood or cardboard is better. Maybe I'm just into borderline ridiculous analytical minimization
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
To find a road sometimes going up is correct sometimes going down is better. In the old days of steam and rail logging they pulled the trees down hill. In the more modern times with diesel the loggers are able to pull the logs up to the ridge tops. Therefore most major streams and rivers have roads going up them. Areas logged since the 60s typically have long roads running ridges. going down and finding a road- good, going down and getting into a narrow ravine choked with blow down- bad. Going up and finding a road- good. Going up and finding a knife edge ridge with no road- bad, but a least better to escape than a ravine and if a view is available then there is a chance to figure out your location and the way home. Just don't follow into a different drainage and really get lost. One time following elk I crossed over from the Quartzville drainage to the Middle fork of the Santiam and then it got dark and stormy. I knew where I was but it was planning on snowing so I didn't want to spend the night out and like Dorothy I could not go back the way I came. I ended up crossing the M.F.S. wilderness, made it out to hwy 20 and was then able to get rides back to our camp. Very expensive rides! And when I got to camp my hunting partners where so worried that they drank most of the beer and went to sleep.
As for a fire, one can be built in almost any condition if you know how. Fire starter is great and worth carrying, but not necessary. The key is to start looking for dry wood early while you have plenty of light. Good dry wood can be found by looking up not down. Use dry dead lower branches, chunks of wood below large canopy trees, the wood is there. I do not even worry about LNT when my butt is on the line, If I make it out I can midi gate latter. Heck if I was in a bad enough spot and in need of a rescue I would even consider spray painting red arrows on as manny trees as I could.
A further note about roads in the woods. Loggers do not build roads with "T" intersections, they build them with "Y" intersections. The bottom of the "Y" always leads out. Think about it, first a road is built "I" straight to where ever it is that they will be cutting. They finish, then decide to cut somewhere else. They just fork off the original road creating the "Y". Loaded, outbound, downhill log trucks have the right away and they use the whole road. They do not stop easily, nor do they care to try to.
As for a fire, one can be built in almost any condition if you know how. Fire starter is great and worth carrying, but not necessary. The key is to start looking for dry wood early while you have plenty of light. Good dry wood can be found by looking up not down. Use dry dead lower branches, chunks of wood below large canopy trees, the wood is there. I do not even worry about LNT when my butt is on the line, If I make it out I can midi gate latter. Heck if I was in a bad enough spot and in need of a rescue I would even consider spray painting red arrows on as manny trees as I could.
A further note about roads in the woods. Loggers do not build roads with "T" intersections, they build them with "Y" intersections. The bottom of the "Y" always leads out. Think about it, first a road is built "I" straight to where ever it is that they will be cutting. They finish, then decide to cut somewhere else. They just fork off the original road creating the "Y". Loaded, outbound, downhill log trucks have the right away and they use the whole road. They do not stop easily, nor do they care to try to.
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
the lint from your dryer is incredibly flammable on its own....Crusak wrote:Another good thing to put inside the cavity of each egg carton segment is a big ol' fluffy cotton ball. Or put two cotton balls. They'll absorb wax and act as a nice wick. You can also put shredded paper in there (from all that junk mail that floods your mailbox, lol)
I did not know this but it makes sense. Good to know....viking wrote:A further note about roads in the woods. Loggers do not build roads with "T" intersections, they build them with "Y" intersections. The bottom of the "Y" always leads out. Think about it, first a road is built "I" straight to where ever it is that they will be cutting. They finish, then decide to cut somewhere else. They just fork off the original road creating the "Y".
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
but does more wax (ratio?) burn up quicker?retired jerry wrote:wax has a higher BTU/ounce than wood or cardboard
if you're into ridiculous minimizing of weight, which I border on, then more wax and less wood or cardboard is better.
My guess is its more important to sustain a flame the longest for the weight of the firestarter?
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
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retired jerry
- Posts: 14424
- Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
theoretically, what you need is heat to get your fire started, it doesn't matter so much how fast it happens
measured in BTUs or Joules (Watt-seconds)
if you have some sticks that have some water in them, you need some amount of heat to evaporate the water, and some more to get them hot enough to combust
Theoretically, if it's too fast, then maybe the heat will radiate or convect or conduct away before it gets inside the wood and evaporates the water. If it's too slow, it'll start radiating/convecting/conducting the heat away before it gets hot enough to combust.
according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_of_combustion:
wax has 46 MJ/kg
wood has 22 MJ/kg, I assume other cellulose fiber like cotton or paper would be about the same
you need twice as much wood to provide the same amount of heat as wax
of course this is theoretical, but I've tried paper and wax, and the wax seems to work better. Like I said, 0.25 ounce of paraffin is plenty for fairly dry wood, but 0.5 ounce is better when I'm trying to get wet wood to start. But if you're not careful, you'll need more.
yeah, you can make fire with no fire starter - find the driest wood you can find which might violate LNT principals. Shavings are good. What do they call it when you make shavings on a stick but leave them attached? Or a fir or pine branch that has dried. Lots of little pieces. Pitch is good (which is similar to wax). When you get it started, don't put too much more on too quickly or you'll put it out,... You need to do this with a fire starter too, just makes it a little easier.
measured in BTUs or Joules (Watt-seconds)
if you have some sticks that have some water in them, you need some amount of heat to evaporate the water, and some more to get them hot enough to combust
Theoretically, if it's too fast, then maybe the heat will radiate or convect or conduct away before it gets inside the wood and evaporates the water. If it's too slow, it'll start radiating/convecting/conducting the heat away before it gets hot enough to combust.
according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_of_combustion:
wax has 46 MJ/kg
wood has 22 MJ/kg, I assume other cellulose fiber like cotton or paper would be about the same
you need twice as much wood to provide the same amount of heat as wax
of course this is theoretical, but I've tried paper and wax, and the wax seems to work better. Like I said, 0.25 ounce of paraffin is plenty for fairly dry wood, but 0.5 ounce is better when I'm trying to get wet wood to start. But if you're not careful, you'll need more.
yeah, you can make fire with no fire starter - find the driest wood you can find which might violate LNT principals. Shavings are good. What do they call it when you make shavings on a stick but leave them attached? Or a fir or pine branch that has dried. Lots of little pieces. Pitch is good (which is similar to wax). When you get it started, don't put too much more on too quickly or you'll put it out,... You need to do this with a fire starter too, just makes it a little easier.
Re: How to avoid becoming a statistic in Oregon forests
Excellent advice. My brother-in-law and I did something similar on a recent Coast Range camping trip. We looked for wood that was well above ground (mostly stuff sitting on top of old slag piles) and took a chainsaw to it. We didn't mess with any standing trees (since it wasn't an emergency).viking wrote:TAs for a fire, one can be built in almost any condition if you know how. Fire starter is great and worth carrying, but not necessary. The key is to start looking for dry wood early while you have plenty of light. Good dry wood can be found by looking up not down. Use dry dead lower branches, chunks of wood below large canopy trees, the wood is there. I do not even worry about LNT when my butt is on the line, If I make it out I can midi gate latter. Heck if I was in a bad enough spot and in need of a rescue I would even consider spray painting red arrows on as manny trees as I could.
very good to know. and that makes sense.viking wrote:A further note about roads in the woods. Loggers do not build roads with "T" intersections, they build them with "Y" intersections. The bottom of the "Y" always leads out.
Yes, I'd forgotten about dryer lint!koda wrote:the lint from your dryer is incredibly flammable on its own....
I always thought that the dryer lint, cotton ball or shredded paper in the egg carton fire starter was there to act as a wick.Koda wrote:but does more wax (ratio?) burn up quicker?