lost in the cold rain...

Share your tips for safe hiking, surviving in the wild and managing hiking injuries!
raven
Posts: 1531
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by raven » November 29th, 2012, 9:47 pm

You cant use a space blanket as a tarp.
The heavier ones used to have grommets and can be used as a roof over you. Even the lighter ones can be used as a tarp if you have string and some styrofoam peanuts to push into the tarp before tying the string around them. A space blanket can be a reflector for a fire, but I think of a fire as a nicety rather than something I'd stake my life on building in the wet. In the end all the uses of space blankets fail in a wind, so up against a tree with the sb as a sort of umbrella is the only fairly trustworthy use to me. My rain gear does 99% of what I need then.

Emergencies tend to be more likely with some combination of dark and storm. If I were concerned about where I might be, a one pound sleeping bag, a bivy bag for use over it with a foam pad for use under it, and a real tarp and stakes look like cheap insurance at less than 3 pounds.

Think about the idea of going to sleep on a place like Ruckel Ridge, where you might roll. Those are the sorts of places in the Gorge that might cause the problems that keep you out. You might want to be able to tie in, if you take gear that would let you sleep, or even have your back against a tree for 12 hours.

User avatar
Koda
Posts: 3466
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 7:54 am

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by Koda » November 30th, 2012, 12:55 pm

so let me see if I understand this correct:

If I use a single sided space blanket, put the shiny side out. If I have a double sided space blanket it obviously does not matter. Maybe double sided blankets are most efficient?

with either style blanket wear your best insulation layers on the inside under the blanket and wrap up in the blanket.
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

User avatar
Koda
Posts: 3466
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 7:54 am

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by Koda » November 30th, 2012, 1:21 pm

raven wrote:Even the lighter ones can be used as a tarp if you have string and some styrofoam peanuts to push into the tarp before tying the string around them.
this is actually very clever, but that level of preparedness and planning means I have a real tarp in my pack.

Emergencies tend to be more likely with some combination of dark and storm.
I will respectfully disagree with this one, but rather emergencies that do not end well are more likely associated with dark and storm.
The biggest element of surviving outdoors I have gleaned from these discussions is exposure. Regardless of the hottest of summers, any storm in the mountains can or will bring hypothermic temperatures even during daytime.
If I were concerned about where I might be, a one pound sleeping bag, a bivy bag for use over it with a foam pad for use under it, and a real tarp and stakes look like cheap insurance at less than 3 pounds.
I will agree with this one. The best chances of survival are being prepared, and being prepared means identifying the risks and mitigating them.

In the prepared category, I think the best value for an emergency item is the Six Moon Designs Gatewood Cape.... mainly because I am not likely to carry a 1lb sleeping bag and bivy on any dayhike. At under a pound including stakes this item includes a fully enclosed shelter from the elements.
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

raven
Posts: 1531
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by raven » November 30th, 2012, 2:11 pm

Carrying a Gatewood Cape as an emergency item is a good idea. (The Gatewood is a low six sided pyramid tarp with a hood allowing it to be worn as a poncho.) Worn, you could change under it in a storm. It would be relatively easy to use if injured, since it can be worn if it can't be pitched. It could provide emergency shelter for two. It could be pitched above timberline. Its volume allows you to sit by a tree and eat with your open pack protected under it.

Sure beats a space blanket.

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14425
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by retired jerry » November 30th, 2012, 2:21 pm

"Actually this page is helping me understand the concept I think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-layer_insulation"

I didn't see that one. Interesting. Of course in space it's a little different because there's no air so little conduction yet still good info. There's about a dozen interesting wikipedia articles.

This has sort of digressed away from survival to science talk, but that's okay :)

With the aluminum dots, that would fix the problem with no way for water vapor to exit. If the surface was 50% dots, you would have half the advanatage. It seems like you could have 90% dots and still have enough room for water vapor.

But, don't they have the dots facing in? I think it would be better if they faced out.

If you were in a survival situation, and you're hypothermic, you should wrap yourself in space blanket and not worry about vapor. Since you're hypothermic you won't be perspiring a lot. Water will gradually condense on the inside of space blanket which will reduce effectiveness of your insulation but you'll be better off than without space blanket. You won't be expending heat evaporating that water if it's trapped in.

User avatar
mayhem
Posts: 3579
Joined: December 22nd, 2009, 7:46 pm
Contact:

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by mayhem » December 9th, 2012, 10:52 am

Bammmmola! Mylar, Tarp, & Rock :)

Shoe Shine Boy Has Left The Building!

User avatar
Koda
Posts: 3466
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 7:54 am

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by Koda » December 9th, 2012, 11:41 am

I have a compliment and a few critiques of the videos emergency shelter.

As a compliment, it shows how well a mylar space blanket can work and how to set it up and use it in conjunction with a fire.

As to critiquing.... He didn't go into detail on whats needed to build one or how so its moot anyways but this shelter is in no way a 'survival' shelter, its a campout, it looks very time consuming to set up but fun to build and sleep in.
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14425
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by retired jerry » December 9th, 2012, 12:22 pm

If the wind was blowing from fire to shelter, you'de get embers all over and it would tend to blow the shelter away. If it rained, it would be difficult to keep fire going.

But, that would be a nice way to spend the night when it worked.

User avatar
Koda
Posts: 3466
Joined: June 5th, 2009, 7:54 am

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by Koda » December 9th, 2012, 12:45 pm

retired jerry wrote: But, that would be a nice way to spend the night when it worked.
exactly, like I said it looks like a fun campout.

Unless there are instructions to build a shelter from nothing but sticks, the effort of planning and the items required to carry (to construct) a survival shelter like that negate the reason behind "survival"... might as well bring a UL tarp tent. A lot of these survival websites talk about debris shelters and lean to's and other stuff that require a lot of stuff to construct. I stuggle to find the balance on those sites between practical application of those shelters vs camping out.

IMO: the concept of being prepared for survival is a kit that weighs as little as possible depending on the adventure. No one is going to carry all the stuff required to build a shelter like that one on a day hike. I've been working on my own survival kit probably under 3lbs, that way depending on the adventure I can pick all or a part of the kit to bring along. (I went to buy the gatewood cap, but they are sold out...)

My kit idea:
>gatewood cape, 11oz, ~15oz with stakes?
>space blanket for ground cloth or other... 1oz
>(my) canister stove, 15oz inc. fuel.
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

User avatar
retired jerry
Posts: 14425
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: lost in the cold rain...

Post by retired jerry » December 9th, 2012, 12:56 pm

+1 Koda

My kit would be

floorless tent including pole and stakes - 23 ounces
sleeping bag/bivy - 28 ounces
Gore Tex jacket - 12 ounces
synthetic vest - 7 ounces
sleeping matt - 16 ounces
etc. - my normal backpacking equipment

Post Reply