lost in the cold rain...

[Koda]

thanks Jerry,

question though, your kit weighs 7.2lbs.... is this your backpacking setup or a survival kit, would you use this for day hikes? I should clarify for me a survival kit is reserved for dayhikes and additional items only for surviving. Seems like some of your components in your kit are already part of standard hiking items like the parka and vest so I don't count those.

[raven]

Koda, add the Blizzard Bag I cited earlier in this thread to the Gatewood Cape, and you would match Jerry's list of backpacking items at a much lower weight. (You do have thin foam pad along, right?) True luxury in an emergency sense.

I would skip the stove unless on snow, for an equal weight in water; important, should your bivy spot be dry.

[retired jerry]

I guess my point is that if I want to survive, I take my backpacking equipment. My total base weight is 12 pounds.

If I was day hiking to Angel's Rest, McNeil Point in the summer, King's Mt, etc. then I figure someone will walk along at some point to bail me out. Plus, when I don't show up back home my wife will call authorities although I might have to survive the night. I'd take Gore-Tex jacket and space blanket which would hopefully be enough. I wouldn't do this in miserable weather.

[Koda]

correct Raven, the stove is also a true luxury in an emergency. They have just gotten so light weight that the option of bringing one is on the table. The most important thing you noted was water, is certainly more important than a stove. And yes, I forgot to list my sitting pad although one can sit on their pack.

IMO outside of a mountaineering objective I don't consider bringing a UL sleeping bag, its size and weight lean it to the planned camping category, I don't dayhike with a full size pack so consuming pack space is important element, I think in an emergency one could survive in their clothes under a tarp like the gatewood. These survival discussions often consume the 'over prepared' category and that distracts from the survival aspect at hand, we cant be prepared for everything or it would be called backpacking....

Thanks for clarifying Jerry...

[raven]

Koda, I was only saying that for true luxury for an emergency overnight, all you had to add to your already-planned kit was 13 ounces and 60 cubic inches. The total volume and weight is much less than Jerry's backpacking kit. And that sleeping bag weighs less than that stove you mentioned with its fuel and pot.

[Koda]

Like I mentioned, when discussing survival where do we draw the line between being prepared and bringing everything to purposely camp out? But certainly the blizzard bag is not a contender for regular camping out... I can be flexible.... for 13oz and only 42 bucks it can be worth considering to bring along. There are other survival bivy sacks too, but this one is thermal. Thanks for clarifying this Raven. Just not it is not breathable... it would be fun to find one similar that is both breathable and thermal and still fits the survival category vs a true UL down bag. Adventure Medical kits has some breathable bivy products worth considering.

So if I traded my stove for the blizzard bag (assuming it works) then I would have a very nice SHTF kit.

>Gatewood Cape 13oz, ~15 w/stakes... (guessing 1L of space)
>space blanket for ground cloth or other 2oz (negligible space)
>Blizzard Bag 13oz, (1 liter of space)
>foam pad, ~4oz

*so if I use a ~30L daypack I need to reserve at least 2L of space for kit.

Reference: http://www.amazon.com/Blizzard-Survival ... p_redirect

[retired jerry]

I looked at that Blizzard Bag. Amazing warmth for the weight. As good as a 3 season sleeping bag. Weighs half as much for the same warmth. And only costs $40 or something.

I wonder if you could use that instead of a sleeping bag for camping? The only problem is it doesn't breath at all so you would get clammy if not wet inside.

[raven]

Jerry, it might not compress well after being unpacked. I agree it would be an interesting experiment.

I tend to worry less about clamminess than most people discussing VBs. I've used vapor barrier sleeping bag liners over my clothing with no clamminess problems. On the other hand, there was a great temperature difference between the outside of my sleeping bag and the outside of the liner, and I wasn't sweating. As (IIRC) Jack Stephenson claimed, when the humidity goes up next to the skin, imperceptible sweating stops, so you don't get wet with a vapor barrier if the barrier is warm. The temperature differential may be less with the blizzard bag, so the conditions inside the bag may be less pleasant. But I doubt it would be much of a problem during the summer.

[retired jerry]

I've made Vapor Barrier base layer shirt and pants with "fuzzy stuff" from Stephenson

Also tried garbage bag with holes for arms and neck

I don't mind clamminess either

But they were sort of heavy. Lighter base layers were just as warm. I didn't go below about 20 degree F. I think VB works better at colder temperatures. And on multi-day expeditions, like the arctic.

But, in a sleeping bag, I like to wear my insulated vest and get about half of my warmth with it. That wouldn't work so well inside non-breathable sleeping bag

I could use a sleeping bag that was twice as warm and wear nothing inside, like the Stephenson sleeping bags, but then there's extra weight of heavier sleeping bag.

And in the temperatures I go, like down to 20 F, my sleeping bag and clothes dry out during the night. With non breathable bag, everything would gradually get wet over a few day trip.

[raven]

Jerry, I had a light VBL, not the heavier fuzzy stuff.(Actually, I've had a few over the years.) And I wore a polyester-fill vest. Really helps the morale when getting out of the bag in the cool of winter and helps the shoulders against trickles of cool. No clamminess issues that I can remember with the VBL tightened around my neck keeping the vest warmed and humid. Can't speak to down.