I love my XL ice axe

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Water
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Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: I love my XL ice axe

Post by Water » June 13th, 2018, 1:16 pm

think of the damage trails did when the were put in. Trails are not compatible with LNT.

personally, I'm more a hoverer/levitator when it comes to my wilderness travel, but to each their own.
Feel Free to Feel Free

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-Q-
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Re: I love my XL ice axe

Post by -Q- » June 13th, 2018, 1:23 pm

Bosterson wrote:
June 13th, 2018, 11:10 am
-Q- wrote:From the looks of things you chose a very poor gully to travel.
If chopping a step in an active dirt slide area that no one will ever revisit is an egregious abuse, what about any time any of us go offtrail and have to kick into moss or dirt? What about any time the ground under one's foot slides? What about digging a cat hole while backpacking? What about wilderness management entities building new trails? There's no need to hijack this thread over whether LNT is relevant to silly offtrail shenanigans that occur in unused areas, so if you would like to further debate the illogical argument you're positing, please feel free to PM me and we can discuss there. :)
I guess I will choose not to continue my "illogical argument" with someone who responds with such a cocky post. Your attitude is terrible dude. Check your ego at the door next time someone questions your poor behavior.

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-Q-
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Re: I love my XL ice axe

Post by -Q- » June 13th, 2018, 1:30 pm

Water wrote:
June 13th, 2018, 1:16 pm
think of the damage trails did when the were put in. Trails are not compatible with LNT.

personally, I'm more a hoverer/levitator when it comes to my wilderness travel, but to each their own.
Trails, while damaging to the immediate area, are designed to lesson the impact on the surrounding environment, both in the short and long term. They are totally in line with LNT.

Off trail wilderness travel is fine and acceptable, just need to be smart about where and when. From the pic posted above with accompanying description, I don't deem that location acceptable. Just my personal opinion.

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Bosterson
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Re: I love my XL ice axe

Post by Bosterson » June 13th, 2018, 2:39 pm

-Q- wrote:
June 13th, 2018, 1:23 pm
Bosterson wrote:
June 13th, 2018, 11:10 am
-Q- wrote:From the looks of things you chose a very poor gully to travel.
If chopping a step in an active dirt slide area that no one will ever revisit is an egregious abuse, what about any time any of us go offtrail and have to kick into moss or dirt? What about any time the ground under one's foot slides? What about digging a cat hole while backpacking? What about wilderness management entities building new trails? There's no need to hijack this thread over whether LNT is relevant to silly offtrail shenanigans that occur in unused areas. I don't think your argument makes sense in a broader context including the examples I have just given, so if you would like to further discuss this, please feel free to PM me. :)
I guess I will choose not to continue my "illogical argument" with someone who responds with such a cocky post. Your attitude is terrible dude. Check your ego at the door next time someone questions your poor behavior.
Hm. It was meant to be a bit playful, but maybe that didn't come across on the internet. To be clear, I was not trying to land some ad hominem "I think you're stupid" type jab; I actually do not think your argument makes sense (unless we are about to begin policing people's every footstep). However, "illogical" maybe connotes a bit harshly. So apologies, duly revised above.
Will hike off trail for fun.

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Water
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Re: I love my XL ice axe

Post by Water » June 13th, 2018, 2:54 pm

I can think of a lot of places that would be left with a much smaller impact (LNT) of human impact if trails were not put in...long and short term

Just imagine if they left endless blow down or didn't maintain trails blasted into cliffsides (eagle creek?)..it would effectively stop most human travel and impact. Seems like trails actually work against LNT at times by their allowing easier access of humans into an area.

personal opinion
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Webfoot
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Re: I love my XL ice axe

Post by Webfoot » June 13th, 2018, 3:11 pm

Perhaps, until the point that the trails and the people who love them stop the area from being strip mined. :geek:

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Chip Down
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Re: I love my XL ice axe

Post by Chip Down » June 13th, 2018, 6:38 pm

Strange discussion. When I'm hiking, I make an effort to avoid harming any creature, unless they're out to get me. And yet I recognize that I drove over/into countless critters on the way, and the highway construction destroyed habitat, and the fuel I burned had an impact (drilling, refining, combustion products, etc). And the trail, of course, as noted above. So none of us have clean hands. Anyway, it's not as if Bosterson and Buddy wanted it to turn out that way. I'm sure they were thinking "gadzooks, what have we done?!" So anyway, was that the shooting gallery on indian point? I hope it opens up soon! (not really; I know I'd be in over my head)

Anyway, back on topic, my alpenstock is more versatile and sturdy than a whippet. That might seem like a bold statement, considering versatility is the whole point of the whippet, but there's just too much it can't do (still a great option for some folks, I'm sure).

Yes, as I acknowledged in my OP, snagging is terrible if it's on the pack, but it almost never is. It's long enough that's it's comfortable to carry all day. (Heck, even a 70 drives me crazy if it's on my pack when I'm shwhacking.)

viking
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Joined: July 5th, 2009, 6:49 pm

Re: I love my XL ice axe

Post by viking » July 6th, 2018, 2:43 pm

I’ve been using a dirt axe off trail for well over 15 years now. A long heavy axe is best. Before that a Pulaski for the same purpose. Sometimes when in soft steep areas I also like dirt crampons. Safety first.

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