Wood burning stoves?

[kepPNW]

Anyone use wood burning backpacking stoves? Or just care to offer advice for/against? I've been eyeballing things like this:

• Solo Stove @Amazon
  
  [timg=250]http://www.rei.com/media/zz/78b12df5-9c ... 65977d.jpg[/timg] Vargo Titanium Hexagon @REI

First big question that screams to mind is how they're "seen" when fire bans are in place. Would they be allowed (or prudent) anywhere liquid/gas stoves are permitted? Some of the reviewers on the second one said they also used it as a windscreen around home-made alcohol stoves, for double-duty.

Just started looking at them, really, so any/all insight appreciated.

Thanks!

[Lumpy]

There are different levels of fire bans. Usually, any fire is banned that is not in an approved fire pit, BBQ, or stove. Somewhere along the line the next level is that any fire is banned except for a stove that has a positive shut off valve, and then the highest level is any recreational or cooking fire at all.

You can see that based on that info, since the little wood stove set up does not have a positive shut off, it would be banned at a very common level for many areas during the summer.

Maybe stealth is key, along with extra and unusually high levels of extreme care to ensure that you don't have any escaping embers or coals. I considered a little wood stove, but decided the risk of the fine for using one when and where it would be banned was not something I was willing to deal with.

[kepPNW]

Would most alcohol stoves also fall shy of that positive shutoff valve requirement? Was thinking one of these guys with an alcohol insert might be pretty versatile, but it sounds like (almost) the same situation. Almost, only because I think some of them have caps that'll cut-off the oxygen nearly immediately, right?

[Lumpy]

While there is no definition for "positive shut off valve" in any law or rule regarding this issue that I have been able to find yet, many take it to mean that if you cannot shut off the flow of *fuel*, it is not a valve, and would be banned under the language. There have been many stories of alcohol stove users burning themselves and spilling burning fuel that have started fires. There are also stories of all of the other kinds of stoves causing burns to people and land. I think the various agencies believe that a shut off valve for the fuel is the safest way to go under a particular burn ban because if the fuel is positively stopped, the flame is stopped, and the fuel is also then contained in it's canister. Covering the alcohol burner to cut off oxygen and stop combustion can still spill fuel that may not be noticed.

In the long run, nothing is perfect, and everything gets misused or abused at some point.

[Pnw.hiker]

Anyone use wood burning backpacking stoves? Or just care to offer advice for/against?

The safer the conditions for using a wood burning backpacking stove, the worse they work, and vice versa; i.e. they work best when there is bone-dry fuel lying around all over the place, and in this case you have to be especially careful.

Burning crappy fuel in cold wet conditions can cause tar/turpentine to condense on/around the pot from the wood smoke. Once it got under my foil lid and was enough to ruin the food.

I use a homemade version on occasion-- usually find a firepit to burn it in.

It generally works good, packs inside my pot and is preferable to building a fire to cook, which I never do. Generates tar and soot on the bottom of your pot so you need a large ziplock to pack both the stove and your pot in.

[Grannyhiker]

Individual jurisdictions (individual national forests, national parks, states or counties) may have their own rules. In other words, check the rules for the specific area you're going. Calling the appropriate ranger station just before your trip should be part of normal trip preparation, even if they don't have the most up-to-date trail information. If nothing else, they will know the exact location of any nearby fires, and there are a lot of those right now.

Generally, a wood stove is considered the same as a campfire--if campfires are banned, so are wood stoves. Part of the reason is that both put out sparks.

Alcohol is interesting. This year, many of the California national forests and national parks allow at least some alcohol stoves.. Evidently some hikers (the BPL crowd), went in and demonstrated their use to each jurisdiction. However, many jurisdictions elsewhere ban alcohol stoves, especially after the nasty alcohol-stove-caused fire in Colorado a couple of years ago.

The Wenatchee-Okanogan National Forest, i.e. all of Washington on the east slope of the Cascades, which is rapidly going up in smoke this summer, currently has a total campfire ban and allows only stoves with on-off valves that are certified by the Underwriters' Laboratories. That basically means only pressurized canister fuel stoves such as the Pocket Rocket or gasoline/kerosene stoves such as the Whisperlite (to use the best known examples from MSR). It's hard to object considering the fire situation there!

What's weird is that most jurisdictions allow "jellied gasoline." Jellied gasoline is actually napalm, not recommended for stoves and certainly not dry forests! What they really mean is jellied alcohol, which is Sterno.

Whatever stove you use, please clear a spot for it big enough so it won't set any grass or other vegetataion on fire even if it falls over or flares up. That should be just plain common sense!

Since, in my misspent youth, both my mother and I both spent many years cooking on an open campfire, I really can't see the need of a wood stove. Were I going to use wood for fuel, I wouldn't bother with a stove. You can make a tiny campfire of small sticks and build it around your pot.

[raven]

Ah GH, but with many stoves and a bit of aluminum foil, ground damage can be avoided. Impossible without much more ground protection with even a small open fire. That's important to me.

Also a lot less fuel is needed with the enclosure of the stove and the properly positioned pot.

A stove is much safer if wind suddenly rises.

It is easier to be certain the fire contained in a stove is dead out before turning away from the fire for a walk or for bed.

The above are pragmatic points. More philosophically, why burn more scenery than is required? All stoves burn less fuel than open fires, although the differences in efficiency between stoves seems to be under debate.

I'd go stove for any planned wood cooking, but I'm not sure which one.

[Koda]

Or just care to offer advice for/against?

my questions summarizes my thoughts: how much do you want to mess with wood collecting and fire building when your hungry in the morning and evening in camp?

When you consider the cheaper price and comparable weight of a pocket rocket (4.2oz) its hard to justify the weight savings of the fuel cell and the boil efficiency of a canister stove. (a full jetboil canister weights 7.1oz). The total weight of the Solo Stove is 9oz, the Vargo Ti stove is lighter but less efficient....

That said I do think in ideal conditions (forest fire danger aside) it would be fun to use. Its really a matter of convenience, on multiple night trips I've conserved canister fuel by building a small fire under my cook pot such as Grannyhiker suggested.

[raven]

A wood stove can weigh 2.7 ounces (http://qiwiz.net/stoves.html) and be fairly quick to fire up. There is a real trade off, not the waving hands weight estimate of 9 ounces. If you ever built a wood fire to conserve petroleum fuel, then it was a trip where using a modern wood stove instead from the git-go would have taken a half pound and substantial bulk out of your pack; and the evidence you did build a wood fire indicates you should carry a wood stove instead of petrol-based on such trips.

You can fly (if going for a major hike) with the wood stove and be ready to hike when you get to your destination, whereas flying commercially with fuel to Alaska or elsewhere is not legal, IIRC.

[Koda]

and the evidence you did build a wood fire indicates you should carry a wood stove instead of petrol-based on such trips.

says who? My only requirement for building any fire is because I feel like it... I'll never plan any trip where my meals, and especially my morning coffee, is dependent on me building a fire.