Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

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Bosterson
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by Bosterson » March 10th, 2010, 11:19 pm

Wow. Even more of a bummer. I agree that it's good to finally have someone related to the case make a rational analysis about it, though I would guess that perhaps the law enforcement folks have suspected this for a number of days already and weren't at liberty to talk about it. In which case, the thorough search of the woods is just keeping your bases covered.
chameleon wrote:While I hate that the media fosters fear in people by creating stereotypes that act as a poison in our society, I don't hold it against wildernessgirl or any other girl for choosing to be prudent and safe.
I'm happy to let the "solo hiking roundtable disagreement" fizzle out after this, but I just want to clarify with regard to what you wrote: I can't speak for any of the others who are arguing against the "scare factor" for solo hiking, but I would guess that they would agree with me when I say that I don't think anyone here is holding a dislike of solo hiking against anyone else. No one says that anyone should have to want to hike by themselves. It's something you do if you like it, and some of us just happen to like it. What I (and I think the others) are saying is that to describe solo hiking as some sort of inherently dangerous activity - to disregard the established facts - is irrational and perhaps fear mongering. It is totally fine for someone to personally dislike (or even fear) hiking solo, but what I (and perhaps we) am objecting to is when that dislike/fear is presented as a categorical fact. So I don't think this disagreement has anything to do with what any of us is doing - whether we are part of the group that hikes solo or part of the group that doesn't (cause seriously? aren't we all just hikers?) - but rather with the continued assertion of a danger that is being blown way out of proportion, especially (as far as I'm concerned) when the attention given to that danger becomes louder/more salient than practical considerations (especially for beginners/the public at large), like being self sufficient in the woods.
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chameleon
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by chameleon » March 11th, 2010, 12:05 am

lol - wow, and I didn't even refer to anyone as holding anything "against" anyone else - just said that I myself didn't...

In any case, I'm glad if folks are doing what they need to do to stay safe. That's the bottom line. Personally I hike 99% of the time off trail and alone. So I don't have too many issues about solo hiking. However...I've been in the position where I've had friends missing, and I've feared for their lives, and I will never promote a cavalier attitude individual safety decisions. While statistics are what they are, stuff happens, and I want no part in someone getting into trouble, because they got a false sense of security from my nonchalantness or emphasis on their statistical safety, etc...

A couple years ago I drew a map to Wahe falls for a couple friends. On a Sunday afternoon, they set out for a quick afternoon hike. Two days later on my weekend I received a call from a coworker telling me neither one had shown up for work! I raced to the Gorge, where I found their car broken into, etc... I spent a sleepless night with search and rescue, directing them to where I believed my friends to be. Even though I myself had thought nothing of suggesting the Wahe hike to them at the time, when they "disappeared" I was stunned. Though a kindly deputy spent 20 minutes convincing me it wasn't my fault they got lost, I felt totally to blame! It was my map and my suggestion they took.

Thankfully they were found the next morning by a Fox news helicopter and carried down by a Coast Guard helicopter, and were a bit skinnier, but in perfectly good shape. They had gotten to the falls, but couldn't find a safe way down, and were stuck there.

It was a lesson to me personally though. Even though it might be irrational, when it comes to someone else, I want to bend over backward to keep them from harm's way. Of course the odds were that nothing would happen to them, but in that one in a million chance... forget it. If I err on the safe side they might stay alive. If I tell them lightning rarely strikes and the next day a bolt kills them, I'd feel pretty crappy. That's just a little background on where I stand on it.

ElphabaNorthWest
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by ElphabaNorthWest » March 11th, 2010, 7:39 am

chameleon wrote:While I hate that the media fosters fear in people by creating stereotypes that act as a poison in our society, I don't hold it against wildernessgirl or any other girl for choosing to be prudent and safe.
The problem, for me, with statements like this is that they seem to imply that if I, as a woman, choose differently I am not being safe and prudent. Men are almost across the board, victims of crime more often than women. They are murdered, assaulted, pick-pocketed, etc... more. The US government has a nice pdf about this, but I don't have the link in front of me. As a matter of fact, the only crime that women are victims of more frequently is rape. Yes there is some danger in any activity you choose to do alone, but life is dangerous and always ends with dying at some point.

That said, I do understand your comment about feeling responsible when other people get hurt on "your watch", so to speak. That's actually part of the reason I do hike alone a lot. When I bring friends on a hike I feel a lot of pressure to make sure they have fun. If they end up hating it for whatever reason. (Mosquitoes, heat, etc...) I end up feeling horrible. If they got hurt I'd feel even worse.

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retired jerry
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by retired jerry » March 11th, 2010, 8:00 am

I've encountered people with guns several times which made me uneasy, but after I talked to them a bit they seemed harmless enough.

I saw bear tracks on top of my boot prints 100 feet from my camp once, at Paradise Park, but when I eventually saw the bear it ran away.

Once, a beat up van pulled up at a trailhead (Paradise Park) and the scruffy people got out, didn't see me, and were pretty carefully checking out my car that had quite a bit of stuff visible. I walked up and said hello and they got back in their van and left.

Based on this anecdotal evidence, I think the main risk is at the trailhead and driving to/from.

smokey
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by smokey » March 11th, 2010, 10:34 am

Yikes- I wasn't suggesting that cougars in the woods should be a reason to not hike solo. Someone earlier was commenting about wildlife (or lack thereof) in the Gorge and I thought the link I posted about sightings (mainly on private property) might be interesting to some (apparently not). I intentionally put it in a separate paragraph so it would not be confused with "hiking solo".

I'm finished stating why I, personally, am not comfortable hiking solo. It's a feeling I have, choice I make and I realize that there is no right or wrong way to hike (solo vs. in the company of others). I actually admire the courage solo hikers have that I don't possess, and don't judge them one way or another. I was just attempting to explain why I choose to hike with others and I wasn't intending to try and spread fear. Sorry if I did.

katz4hiking
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by katz4hiking » March 11th, 2010, 4:26 pm

Hey all,

Did we ever git a descrip of the guy who was exposing himself??
Compare his descrip with guy known to missing girl having problems at apartment?

Not implying that the officials haven't covered their bases, but I have had to do alot of private eye work myself when I found out basic things were not done when my son was assaulted a few years back.

Let's not give up hope, be safe all!

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Don Nelsen
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by Don Nelsen » March 11th, 2010, 5:42 pm

katz4hiking wrote:Hey all,

Did we ever git a descrip of the guy who was exposing himself??
Compare his descrip with guy known to missing girl having problems at apartment?

Not implying that the officials haven't covered their bases, but I have had to do alot of private eye work myself when I found out basic things were not done when my son was assaulted a few years back.

Let's not give up hope, be safe all!
I believe the sheriff said "white, mid 20's" when I spoke with him if I remember correctly.

dn
"Everything works in the planning stage" - Kelly

"If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do" - Warren Miller

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fishy
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by fishy » March 11th, 2010, 6:06 pm

Don Nelsen wrote:
katz4hiking wrote:Hey all,

Did we ever git a descrip of the guy who was exposing himself??
Compare his descrip with guy known to missing girl having problems at apartment?

Not implying that the officials haven't covered their bases, but I have had to do alot of private eye work myself when I found out basic things were not done when my son was assaulted a few years back.

Let's not give up hope, be safe all!
I believe the sheriff said "white, mid 20's" when I spoke with him if I remember correctly.

dn
I did read a news story a couple days ago that stated the Sheriff's office did think they knew who the flasher was (I can only assume it's someone they are familiar with) and they still didn't believe he was involved in her disappearance. Channel 8 showed an interview with her father this evening. He's still out there by himself looking for her....so sad, kind of makes me want to go help him....though there's probably not much I could do, and part of me is starting to wonder if she's even on that mountain.....

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Roy
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by Roy » March 11th, 2010, 7:47 pm

Out of respect for family and friends I will pass on some info. I know a SAR person working with authorities for several days up there. Things have gone in a different direction now.
A kind thought or prayer for her and her family is best thing.
The downhill of the mind is harder than the uphill of the body. - Yuichiro Miura

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Don Nelsen
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Re: Missing hiker, possibly near Table Mountain

Post by Don Nelsen » March 11th, 2010, 8:24 pm

Roy wrote:Out of respect for family and friends I will pass on some info. I know a SAR person working with authorities for several days up there. Things have gone in a different direction now.
A kind thought or prayer for her and her family is best thing.
Roy, no kidding! They've gone in a different direction: Take a listen to what her landlord says - this was linked to on a link in a previous post but I missed it until now:

http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=108&sid=295862

Sad, just sad.

don
Last edited by Don Nelsen on March 11th, 2010, 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything works in the planning stage" - Kelly

"If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do" - Warren Miller

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