"Novice hikers draining rescue crews"

[Aridd]

got a laugh out of peoples stupidity but this is a pretty serious article

http://cbs13.com/local/yuppie.911.hikers.2.1269891.html

[ElphabaNorthWest]

This seems like an easy problem to solve... $500 rescue fee per rescue. That's enough to dissuade those who don't really need it, but not enough to cause people who really are in danger to hesitate.

[anna in boots]

This seems like an easy problem to solve... $500 rescue fee per rescue. That's enough to dissuade those who don't really need it, but not enough to cause people who really are in danger to hesitate.

Agreed. This quote from the article says it all: "There's controversy over these devices in the first place because it removes the self sufficiency that's required in the back country," Scharper says. "But we are a society of services, and every service you need you can get by calling."

We are becoming a bizarre society of informed idiots: we have the advanced knowledge of how to use computers, Global Positioning Systems, and Blackberries but we have regressed in common sense to a place where some of us need to Google the instructions on how to use a toilet.

I will never carry a GPS or cell phone into the wild for one reason and one reason only: it makes me plan on covering my own butt.

anna in boots

[Excursionista]

I will never carry a GPS or cell phone into the wild for one reason and one reason only: it makes me plan on covering my own butt.

I have to agree with Anna and also with ElphabaNorthWest. Maybe I'm some sort of purist - but I'm a purist who has never had to use anything in his first aid kit (except for band-aids, moleskin, and neosporin). Like many people on this site, I usually hike solo and I don't carry a cell phone or GPS. My friends and family worry, but their worry has diminished over time. I don't do stupid things in the wood and I don't get hurt or place myself at risk of serious injury.

Why?

Because I hike alone with no communication devices and I've learned to know and trust my body, my limits, and my abilities. I don't need a cell phone, locator, or GPS (though a GPS is great for off-trail hiking).

The most important example in that article is the one about the climbers on Hood who got stuck in a storm, and the resulting question about their intentions - did they risk the weather because of their equipment? Smart climbers, hikers, and backpackers trust their experience, their "gut," the little voice that's yelling "wait a minute."

If I need a rescue, $500 is no problem. But I worry that a fee will cause some people with a beacon to hesitate to activate it in a real emergency - lack of common sense works in both directions.

[anna in boots]

I'm a purist who has never had to use anything in his first aid kit (except for band-aids, moleskin, and neosporin).

Me, too! (Okay, I go in for the cheap, generic brand of Neosporin but my cuts have never complained.)

anna in boots

[Grannyhiker]

I do carry a Personal Locator Beacon, but that's only because of family pressure. It does not affect my behavior in the wild. It certainly does not tempt me to go beyond my skill level. (For one thing, a severe injury at my age would certainly end my hiking/backpacking career.) I would certainly attempt self-rescue before pushing the button. Of course with a PLB, when you register it with the Coast Guard, you are warned of the consequences--hefty fines plus federal prison time--should you use it in other than a life-and-death situation. As a result, there have been very few cases of abuse of these gadgets.

The SPOT (which, per a press release from the National Park Service, is what those Grand Canyon "hikers" had) is a different story, because it's not under government control. I suspect that with the proliferation of this SPOT gadget, there are going to be a lot more false alarms, to the point that either the SPOT will be prohibited or that the current federal regulations on the use of PLBs registered with the Coast Guard will be extended to cover them. Or (thinking of the boy who cried wolf story) it may be that the authorities will start ignoring emergency calls from SPOTs.

Many search and rescue experts are against charging for rescue because it will make people put off calling for help when they should, making the situation far worse or even causing death. On the other hand, fines for pushing the button in non-emergency situations should be extremely high--those who do that are risking the lives of SAR personnel.

I have heard from several sources (but haven't researched it, so I may be wrong) that Grand Canyon NP does charge for rescue. They do go all out warning people about conditions in the canyon, so those who ignore the warnings must be really stupid. I do know that in Wyoming the rescued person must pay for the helicopter or the horse outfitter that performs the rescue. The military puts rescue expense down to training, but, at least in northwest Wyoming, there aren't any military outfits to provide helicopters. Unless it's a medical evacuation and you have really good health insurance, you will end up with a hefty transportation bill.

I wonder why the authorities didn't haul those idiots out and charge them on the first call. Why did they wait until the third call?

I also would like to see a PLB that had some kind of two-way communication, so SAR could have some idea of why the button was pushed and could (like a 911 operator) give instructions, if needed, to the button pusher.

[klossner]

I will never carry a GPS or cell phone into the wild for one reason and one reason only: it makes me plan on covering my own butt.

I'm concerned with more than just my own butt. If I come cross an injured hiker in the wilderness, I won't hesitate to use all my tools to help them. I carry a first aid kit and I've had the training, but sometimes that's not enough. So I also carry a cell phone, a GPSr, and spare batteries.

[Charley]

Those jokers in the Grand Canyon ought to be charged every last penny. Unbelievable. I think that in these cases, when there was no life threatening situation, the responding agency should definitely charge. I feel like there's a difference between that, and, say, hiking along a trail and getting hit by a rockslide, or getting mauled by a cougar. And I believe that these responding agencies can tell the difference. Usually, it's good to have policies outlined in writing. But in these cases, let's encourage them to charge for the sillier rescues, and we taxpayers pick up the tab for real emergencies. The agencies can tell the difference. In today's lawyer-infested society, though, I bet they'd be afraid not to have some clearly outlined policy.

[anna in boots]

Those jokers in the Grand Canyon ought to be charged every last penny. Unbelievable. I think that in these cases, when there was no life threatening situation, the responding agency should definitely charge. I feel like there's a difference between that, and, say, hiking along a trail and getting hit by a rockslide, or getting mauled by a cougar. And I believe that these responding agencies can tell the difference. Usually, it's good to have policies outlined in writing. But in these cases, let's encourage them to charge for the sillier rescues, and we taxpayers pick up the tab for real emergencies. The agencies can tell the difference. In today's lawyer-infested society, though, I bet they'd be afraid not to have some clearly outlined policy.

And while we're at it, how hard can it be to design a beacon that doesn't get activated by accident in someone's backpack? Can't they develop a hard plastic cover that has to be opened to hit the buttons? I wish I had something like that on my keyless door entry system for my vehicle. If I had a dollar for every time I somehow inadvertently pressed the buttons and made the horn go off, scaring the crap out of me and every living thing within five hundred feet of me....

anna in boots

[Stefrobrts]

And while we're at it, how hard can it be to design a beacon that doesn't get activated by accident in someone's backpack? Can't they develop a hard plastic cover that has to be opened to hit the buttons?

I was just looking at the new SPOT and they've done just that. The emergency buttons are under little flip covers. That actually seems like a neat little device. I don't think there's anything wrong with having something to back you up if something goes horribly wrong. I enjoy reading a site called HikerHell where they report on mountain rescues, and sometimes people get in trouble without being completely irresponsible. I think having a device that helps rescuers get right to you instead of calling out the cavalry to scour the woods for days on end is a good thing - for you and for the rescuers. But having the sense to use it correctly, that's something that's hard to legislate. I have no problem with fining people who abuse the system.