Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

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drm
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Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by drm » October 22nd, 2022, 7:16 am

"The leader of a U.S. Forest Service crew conducting a prescribed burn in the Malheur National Forest was arrested Wednesday on charges of reckless burning, according to the Grant County Sheriff’s Office."

https://www.opb.org/article/2022/10/20/ ... al-oregon/

Many other articles out there, this is getting national attention. The prescribed burn got away and burned 10 acres of private land.

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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by Webfoot » October 22nd, 2022, 9:54 am

The Forest Service developed a complicated relationship with prescribed burns this summer when two got out of control in New Mexico, sparking a 341,000-acre inferno, destroying hundreds of homes and displacing thousands. That prompted the agency to temporarily halt prescribed burns, drawing ire from forestry experts and firefighters who say the controlled burns are critical to managing forests.

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sgyoung
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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by sgyoung » October 27th, 2022, 8:55 pm

I had seen this elsewhere. This sets an insane precedent. Obviously prescribed burns escaping containment is terrible and property owners should be fairly compensated for losses/damages when it happens. But arresting the burn manager is nuts unless there is clear evidence of negligence.

We so badly need prescribed fires. This will surely have a chilling impact on the ability of federal and state agencies to do this work.

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retired jerry
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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by retired jerry » October 28th, 2022, 6:02 am

Is this part of the movement that county sheriffs are actually the highest authority?

The federal government has no authority over "federal" lands?

Next door to the Malheur occupation.

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drm
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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by drm » October 28th, 2022, 7:56 am

retired jerry wrote:
October 28th, 2022, 6:02 am
Is this part of the movement that county sheriffs are actually the highest authority?
Actually, the current sheriff there was recently elected and defeated the previous incumbent who had openly supported the Bundy Malheur takeover. So it probably is not connected with the movement you mentioned. There is no question that local law enforcement has the authority to arrest people for something like reckless burning. It's just the target in this particular case. They arrested the FS employee but no formal charges have been filed yet, an investigation continues. The sheriff said that they have probable cause for the arrest, but they have not said what that is. I wouldn't be surprised if no charges are filed and we never find out what the probable cause was.

My guess is that it is more related to the still prevalent man-over-nature attitude that we should put out every fire as quickly as we can, and should never intentionally start one - except to burn waste/slash of course.

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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by justpeachy » October 28th, 2022, 8:03 am

There's a lot of animosity toward the federal government and the Forest Service out there. This article quotes Doug Gochnour, who was forest supervisor in the Malheur NF from 2008 to 2011:

"It was by far the most challenging location through my career, and I worked in two forests in Oregon, three in Idaho, one in Montana, and for short spurts in Colorado and Alaska," said Gochnour, who also served on the city council of nearby John Day, Ore., after he retired. "People were constantly sniping at all the decisions we made."

Gochnour said he faced resentment about the decline of the timber industry that had once sustained the community and about the salaries that Forest Service employees received. Good work was ignored, he said, but "if something remotely negative happens … that rumor spreads like wildfire."

"It's not the whole community," he added. "It's sort of a culture from some of the old-timers that they've spread to their children and so forth, an animosity against the federal government."

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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by jdemott » October 28th, 2022, 12:46 pm

So far, there has been a lot of news coverage about the background of the case and all the animosities among various local factions. But I haven't seen anything about why the fire got out of control, or whether there were mistakes in planning or execution of the prescribed burn.

It seems to me that even if you are in favor of prescribed burns and anti Bundy, if the fire was due to carelessness, then there should be accountability. Likewise, even if you are anti USFS and in favor of strong rights of local landowners, you should be able to accept that sometimes there may be unforeseen damages from a properly conducted burn.

I haven't seen anything yet to answer the question of whether there was carelessness or due care.

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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by Aimless » October 28th, 2022, 1:38 pm

jdemott wrote:
October 28th, 2022, 12:46 pm
I haven't seen anything yet to answer the question of whether there was carelessness or due care.
A reporter's main source would be the sheriff's report following the arrest where the evidence or statements supporting the arrest would be listed. From what little I've read that cited this source, it was based solely on the complaint of the landowner, who alleged carelessness. A reporter could also try to interview the workers present at the burn, but I strongly doubt they'd make statements to a reporter on so touchy a subject that might be headed for court. As I recall, he Grant County Sheriff was in active support of the Bundy occupation of the Malheur reserve and on the night one of the occupation leaders was killed and the Bundys arrested the car caravan was headed to Grant County to an event where he was to speak. This may have some bearing on his willingness to make the arrest once the complaint was filed.

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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by retired jerry » October 28th, 2022, 2:13 pm

In New Mexico a prescribed burn got out of control and turned into a major fire, much worse than this

They need to take these misfires (is that a pun?) and come up with rules to avoid in the future.

Only a small percentage of them get out of control, but that's not good enough

Native Americans have useful experience. Not all of them have died off. I have heard of programs between government and native americans that are helping. Previously, the government has prevented them from doing any prescribed burns.

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Re: Forest Service employee arrested for prescribed burn

Post by jdemott » October 28th, 2022, 2:57 pm

Aimless wrote:
October 28th, 2022, 1:38 pm
As I recall, he Grant County Sheriff was in active support of the Bundy occupation of the Malheur reserve and on the night one of the occupation leaders was killed and the Bundys arrested the car caravan was headed to Grant County to an event where he was to speak. This may have some bearing on his willingness to make the arrest once the complaint was filed.
As noted by drm, the current sheriff is not the same person who was associated with the Bundy situation.
retired jerry wrote:
October 28th, 2022, 2:13 pm
In New Mexico a prescribed burn got out of control and turned into a major fire, much worse than this
I was in New Mexico when that fire happened. It was a terrible disaster for many families and that was one of the things on my mind when I said that there should be accountability if a prescribed burn is not conducted in a prudent manner.

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