barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Use this forum to post links to news stories from other websites - ones that other hikers might find interesting. This is not intended for original material or anecdotal information. You can reply to any news stories posted, but do not start a new thread without a link to a specific news story.
User avatar
aiwetir
Posts: 600
Joined: December 10th, 2014, 11:54 am
Contact:

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by aiwetir » May 3rd, 2022, 11:24 pm

It's likely pronounced as logically as Willamette
- Michael

jvangeld
Posts: 156
Joined: May 29th, 2018, 6:36 pm
Location: Proebstel, WA

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by jvangeld » May 4th, 2022, 9:27 am

Hey rb76, welcome to Oregon Hikers! I hope you have many more adventures that are a bit less hairy.
Jeremy VanGelder - Friends of Road 4109

rb76
Posts: 4
Joined: May 3rd, 2022, 8:12 am

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by rb76 » May 4th, 2022, 10:16 am

jvangeld wrote:
May 4th, 2022, 9:27 am
Hey rb76, welcome to Oregon Hikers! I hope you have many more adventures that are a bit less hairy.
Thanks, and believe me I’ve been kicking myself in the foot over this blunder… otherwise has been great though with the other day hikes I’ve done since being in the area (TDH on a blue bird day in April was incredible with the Mt Hood view on top, probably my favorite so far…) The difference being that I did not decide to do those trips upon waking the morning of and as such actually brought the usual items. I’m still not sure why I was fine with bringing extra layers up top and an abundance of water but decided gaiters and snowshoes were too much of a hassle. Admittedly I was also placing faith in nothing more than AT reviews, lol. Trying to figure out all the active forums in the area as I don’t have FB or anything.

I do think the decision to not risk potential foot frostbite and use PLB was warranted, as Inreach allows two-way so you can explain the nature of the situation as to not cause an over reactive response— in addition to the fact that I was in excellent condition to stay put for a few hours and my location was very accessible, about 2 miles of snow hiking from the mtn. road. The volunteer team was very understanding/helpful, and got me the items I needed to get back down to the road with the feet intact. I will be sure to donate to their cause, as the work those people do is invaluable.
I would absolutely love input on this decision though! Making these calls is a lot harder in the moment if icky situations do occur, and all factors must be considered. I’m sure plenty of others read the news of this second incident and were thoroughly confused, and I don’t blame them… while also understanding that delivering an accurate media story isn’t all that easy and it is natural for information to get a bit twisted without any intent.

User avatar
RobFromRedland
Posts: 1094
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by RobFromRedland » May 4th, 2022, 10:29 am

Interesting decision - my experience has been if my hands and/or feet are getting cold (which I've had happen), if I stop, it just makes the problem worse - keeping moving keeps the blood flowing and keeps me warm much better than sitting still. I suppose if you found a place in the sun that might make a difference, though.

Glad things all worked out well.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: WOW! What a ride! - Hunter S. Thompson

rb76
Posts: 4
Joined: May 3rd, 2022, 8:12 am

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by rb76 » May 4th, 2022, 10:37 am

RobFromRedland wrote:
May 4th, 2022, 10:29 am
Interesting decision - my experience has been if my hands and/or feet are getting cold (which I've had happen), if I stop, it just makes the problem worse - keeping moving keeps the blood flowing and keeps me warm much better than sitting still. I suppose if you found a place in the sun that might make a difference though.


Glad things all worked out well.
Keep in mind this was developing due to direct contact with Snow/water rather than ambient cold air temperatures- temp was pretty fair that day (50s-60s) so wasn’t cold anywhere else, and there was no wind. Boots themselves are 4season gtx so feet are usually sweating if anything, lol… but doesn’t matter for shit if they get waterlogged with snow coming in from the top. More of like putting an ice pack on a particular area for too long- it’s gonna hurt regardless of whether you’re in a warm room or not. Like I stated, I made a hugely dumb mistake of foregoing gaiters which is why my boots became wet iceboxes. Even today, Wednesday, they are still damp. Getting the feet out of damp socks/boots, dried and elevated was immediate relief and likely spared injury. After a few hours of waiting sensation was markedly improved, but the footwear was still very cold/damp and in no condition to be stepped in for another 2-3 miles of snow (I actually spent most my idle time ringing out socks, ha… oddly satisfying) The air temperature was comfortable even when clouds came over so wasn’t a concern at any point.

It is amazing how different the day would have gone had I brought something as simple as gaiters and no more.

I appreciate your input!

User avatar
BigBear
Posts: 1836
Joined: October 1st, 2009, 11:54 am

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by BigBear » May 4th, 2022, 12:48 pm

I can't get out of my head the absurdity of wearing flip-flops on a Munra Point hike. It would have been difficult along the trail 400 path, and perhaps a positive for the icy creek crossing, if he went that way. But flip-flops on a steep ascent just seems like something done on a dare, not to mention the descent. He's lucky he only lost the flip-flop and not his footing, thus breaking an ankle or leg.

rb76
Posts: 4
Joined: May 3rd, 2022, 8:12 am

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by rb76 » May 4th, 2022, 12:58 pm

BigBear wrote:
May 4th, 2022, 12:48 pm
I can't get out of my head the absurdity of wearing flip-flops on a Munra Point hike. It would have been difficult along the trail 400 path, and perhaps a positive for the icy creek crossing, if he went that way. But flip-flops on a steep ascent just seems like something done on a dare, not to mention the descent. He's lucky he only lost the flip-flop and not his footing, thus breaking an ankle or leg.
They may have meant crocs or something similar (maybe Birkenstocks?), which is still absurd

Limey
Posts: 706
Joined: December 19th, 2012, 2:34 pm

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by Limey » May 4th, 2022, 5:55 pm

Thanks Adamschneider. I will continue to use my pronunciation of Munruh.

User avatar
Charley
Posts: 1834
Joined: May 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Location: Milwaukie

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by Charley » May 5th, 2022, 3:56 pm

rb76 wrote:
May 4th, 2022, 10:16 am
I would absolutely love input on this decision though! Making these calls is a lot harder in the moment if icky situations do occur, and all factors must be considered.
First off, massive props to you for joining the forum and commenting on the thread. I think that would take a lot of courage, given how we often criticize SAR callers (based on whatever ends up in news articles, of course); you've shown that courage.

I've read some, recently, about how online culture of criticizing and shaming avalanche victims prevents us from learning lessons from survivors, and thus prevents us from saving more lives. So it's great to hear from a person in a hiking situation, too. We can all learn, and that's awesome.

I have a few thoughts about your rescue:

1. I took a Wilderness First Responder course years ago, and I think, given your seriousness and your hobbies, you might really enjoy it and benefit from it! The instructors at my recent WFR recertifications have been very clear about the limitations of an 80 hour first aid course: there isn't a whole lot of RCT data affirming the benefits of medical training at that level, much less training that focuses on the odd situations of wilderness response. However, I have found it valuable for me personally, to help me react appropriately to various situations in the mountains.

One of the most important things we learned is what was called "evacuation criteria." Depending on the kind of trip, illness, or injury, the responses varied...
  • Treat and monitor, while enjoying the rest of the trip
  • Seek definitive care after the trip is over
  • Walk out now
  • Call for ASAP rescue/evacuation
Learning these has helped me understand better what kinds of health problems are workable pains, which are urgent, and which are emergent.

One thing that's stuck with me for years is a sense of proportion and scale in situations that are frightening or chaotic. For example, when asked how to prevent breaking a patient's rib while giving CPR, one instructor said "If you are giving CPR, your patient is dead. They will probably stay dead, but their best chance is that you treat them with great CPR. Their ribs should not be your focus."

Another example: if a patient has an adequate level of responsiveness, adequate airway, breathing, and circulation, then the speed of any assessment and treatment can be more measured and careful. Instructors regularly pointed out that if someone has enough breath to scream "I NEED MY EPI-PEN, RIGHT NOW," then the patient has pretty well-functioning airway, and does not need their epi-pen. In fact, using it prematurely would prevent them of the use of that dose, in the event that their airway closes up later!

Given my level of training, and my ignorance of the conditions you faced, I clearly cannot comment on the likelihood of developing frostbite in this case.

2. You keep beating yourself up about not having your gaiters. Sure, they'd have kept your feet more comfortable for trailbreaking in snow. But, as much as we all do our best to have all the right gear on every trip, sometimes we goof up, and we eat our dinner after carving a spoon out of a stick (assuming we remembered to bring the knife). Or, your hiking buddy realizes they aren't comfortable fording the creek above the waterfall, so you follow a deer path downhill until you end up on private property near a road and walk out. In the moment of unexpected conditions, you think about your situation, and you choose your poison as best you can.

I think it's normal for outdoorsy people to end up some creek, and be forced to think creatively about our goals, our resources, and the limitations of physical comfort. In learning about ultralight backpacking, I learned that often we can substitute skill for heavier gear. At the extremes, while a skilled survivalist might be able to survive a few nights in the winter Cascades with just a hatchet, some relatively unskilled people might not be able to survive the same night, even with a log cabin and a stack of firewood, because they might not be able to start a fire.

It's always possible that you'll end up looking like an idiot: "didn't he know that the wood from that tree is poisonous?" But the world is not actually trying to kill you, and many moments of personal forgetfulness have simply become good stories to tell over a warm campfire. Over time, you'll probably develop an intuitive sense of "I'm getting in over my head, but I can back myself out quite well enough." I don't think you were "idiotic" to continue breaking trail. On the other hand, paying attention to a dawning sense that "this isn't right" could have alerted you to turn around sooner, and thus prevented the cold feet and SAR call altogether.

(An aside: If you ever get into steep snow sports, avalanches offer a big caveat to the benefits of experience here. You can take on exactly the same perceived risk level 99 times with no event, and be suffocated on your 100th time. There's a lot of evidence that the people most "at risk" from avalanches are the most well-trained and experienced backcountry travelers.)

3. SAR always recommends to call for help sooner, rather than later. As I understand it, SAR authorities don't want people waffling about, trying to extricate themselves, hoping to avoid the embarrassment and avoid troubling others. Meanwhile, the sun is getting lower and lower, the time to safely effect a rescue is shrinking away!

The fact that you called in the early afternoon doubtlessly aided in the situation. Furthermore, figuring out nearby road access also helped speed their response.

All in all, given my admittedly limited understanding of your situation, I don't think I'd have called SAR (I used to snowshoe in trail runners- in my experience, it was painful but not damaging). That said, you made a conservative judgement, given your prior knowledge of frostbite and your current situation, and your timely decisions allowed SAR to react quickly, safely, and effectively. A good story with a good outcome.
Believe it or not, I barely ever ride a mountain bike.

User avatar
wildcat
Posts: 109
Joined: September 14th, 2021, 4:48 pm
Location: CN85RP

Re: barefoot hypothermic hiker rescued from Munra Point

Post by wildcat » May 5th, 2022, 6:20 pm

They may have meant crocs or something similar (maybe Birkenstocks?), which is still absurd
I usually hike and ride in my well-beloved Chacos whenever practical (e.g. no long scrambles over boulder fields). I can't imagine hiking in any sandals that don't have heel straps.

Hell, I can't even imagine walking around town in sandals that don't have heel straps! As a teenager in the late '90s I had some Birks that, even properly adjusted, always felt like I was a step away from completely walking out of them.
Life in Chacos
nwhikers.net: thewildcat

Post Reply