Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

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justpeachy
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by justpeachy » September 13th, 2020, 6:29 am

Based on where it started, I think the Riverside Fire was probably started from an illegal campfire. Yes it did start near the Riverside Campground and I'm guessing it came from a dispersed site, not the campground itself. The obsession with campfires here is pretty mind-boggling, especially with the hot weather we had last weekend.
BurnsideBob wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 8:31 pm
Agencies like the USFS and BLM could ban people from the woods under red flag conditions, and you can imagine how well that will go over with the public. Un-elected bureaucrats telling me I can't use my reservation to go camping/hiking/boating/whatever? :o :shock:
People would have an absolute conniption fit. If the forests were ever closed under red flag conditions on a hot holiday weekend and then nothing happened, some people would demand blood.

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retired jerry
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by retired jerry » September 13th, 2020, 7:01 am

This weather event was unusual, so I can see how they did not respond good

Maybe heavy PR campaign on all news - warn people about high wind and how dangerous it is for wildfires, show pictures of Eagle Creek fire, interview some pathetic person whose campfire started a big fire and how badly they feel now, won't do that again...

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drm
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by drm » September 13th, 2020, 7:42 am

Charley wrote:
September 12th, 2020, 5:05 pm
I just wonder how long until we learn the necessary lessons. How many more lives and communities? I cannot accept that this is the best we can do. Just as with other traumas of this very traumatic year, I think we should expect more of our government. I understand that our leaders are human, and I know, of course, they don't want this to happen. I just believe that these people and communities on the edge of our forests deserve better than this.
There are so many examples in the last year or three of people refusing to learn lessons. People refusing to accept facts. People marching off cliffs like lemmings (though I think in fact lemmings don't do that). False rumors that fit people's prejudices spread fast and more people are ready to accept them without any evidence, or even when the evidence is directly counter. So I expect there will be more disasters and more refusal to properly prepare, because that is what our society has shown it does.

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jessbee
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by jessbee » September 13th, 2020, 8:34 am

justpeachy wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 6:29 am
People would have an absolute conniption fit. If the forests were ever closed under red flag conditions on a hot holiday weekend and then nothing happened, some people would demand blood.
This is it. And this is why we suck at prevention (of many things, not just wildfire). If you put things in place to prevent awful things from happening, and then nothing happens, it looks like a failure.

And as someone mentioned earlier, even if fire bans were in place earlier, the people who just can't go camping without having a fire would just have fires anyways. I see illegal campfires literally every time I'm out in the woods. There's no way to patrol it, you're just counting on people doing the right thing.
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johnspeth
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by johnspeth » September 13th, 2020, 11:12 am

jessbee wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:34 am
I see illegal campfires literally every time I'm out in the woods. There's no way to patrol it, you're just counting on people doing the right thing.
In my last two outings (Indian Heaven and Strawberry Mountain), I have seen single FS badged employees carrying fire fighting implements (shovel, ax). Both employees I talked to were polite and talkative and kept a good distance from me. It's a good example of the FS trying to change peoples behavior on the ground.

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jessbee
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by jessbee » September 13th, 2020, 2:30 pm

johnspeth wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 11:12 am
jessbee wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 8:34 am
I see illegal campfires literally every time I'm out in the woods. There's no way to patrol it, you're just counting on people doing the right thing.
In my last two outings (Indian Heaven and Strawberry Mountain), I have seen single FS badged employees carrying fire fighting implements (shovel, ax). Both employees I talked to were polite and talkative and kept a good distance from me. It's a good example of the FS trying to change peoples behavior on the ground.
That's pretty remarkable. It's taken me a decade to run into 2 rangers on the trail.
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retired jerry
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by retired jerry » September 13th, 2020, 3:33 pm

I've seen rangers on the PCT west of Three Sisters a couple times

Once carrying a shovel, he said hi

Another time two "with an attitude". I asked if they wanted to see my self issue permit, it was in my pack. They said yes. They told me not to camp in Obsidian area without a permit.

I question the theory that you need enforcers to enforce rules. Most people will follow rules that are logical. You have to communicate why the rule makes sense. But, there will definitely be people that intentionally flaunt the rules. Shoot signs with guns. Leave piles of garbage. It's frustrating. I think it happens more where cars can drive to.

When I'm in wild areas away from trailhead I see very little trash, people are mostly pretty well behaved.

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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by justpeachy » September 13th, 2020, 4:51 pm

retired jerry wrote:
September 13th, 2020, 3:33 pm
When I'm in wild areas away from trailhead I see very little trash, people are mostly pretty well behaved.
Interesting; that hasn't been my experience at all. I find just as much bad behavior in the backcountry as I do along roads, campgrounds, etc. It's just a different kind of bad behavior. (Except for the having-a-fire-when-they're-not-allowed thing. That is a universal bad behavior that I find everywhere.)

Aimless
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by Aimless » September 13th, 2020, 5:13 pm

I agree that making fires (and fire rings) when and where they are banned is by far the most widespread problem that I see of campers and hikers flouting rules, whether it's in car campgrounds, dispersed sites, or in the backcountry. Nothing seems to deter people who want a campfire, not even temperatures in the 90s!

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windmtnpete
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Re: Leaders Failing to Prevent/Mitigate Fires

Post by windmtnpete » September 14th, 2020, 10:35 am

“Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes."

— George Santayana

What we have now is a situation that was created by multiple violations without enforcement for many years. We also have poor leadership that is proven to be incapable of dealing with these problems. In fact, here in my local community, we have leadership that has enabled and encouraged the violators (criminals) to continue to violate with illegal fireworks while pushing away anyone who stands against these crimes.

Here's proof of illegal fireworks just before a big Summer Solstice Party right next to Wind Mountain..
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=102 ... 5744137628

I really, honestly don't see any hope for America. We are broken.
Last edited by windmtnpete on September 14th, 2020, 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Not all who wander are lost.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien

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