Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

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bobcat
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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by bobcat » November 18th, 2018, 8:39 pm

At least with the Gorge, many of the trails begin in state parks, and imposing and managing quotas, etc., would be anathema to them.

Regarding the other discussion, it's important to remember that this was not a centralized USFS decision. It's a Willamette/Deschutes NF decision.

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markesc
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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by markesc » November 23rd, 2018, 6:28 pm

None of this is shocking/surprises me at all, glad I pretty much quit hiking since it's become a cluster in the past 5 years (since asset prices were reinflated causing flight from other states to ours, and, we're not exactly bringing in the most contentious people either).

https://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/2018 ... music.html

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retired jerry
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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by retired jerry » November 24th, 2018, 6:04 pm

I've never got a response from calling a senator or congressman, but, if they get a lot of people complaining about the same issue they will probably talk to the forest service about it

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Guy
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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by Guy » November 24th, 2018, 6:16 pm

retired jerry wrote:
November 24th, 2018, 6:04 pm
I've never got a response from calling a senator or congressman, but, if they get a lot of people complaining about the same issue they will probably talk to the forest service about it
Same here, I emailed both Oregon senators but no reply or even an acknowledgement of receiving the e mail. But then Merkley has never replied to a single thing I've ever sent him. Though he is not shy about spamming my e mail box :)
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retired jerry
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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by retired jerry » November 25th, 2018, 7:24 am

You have a spam email problem?

I assume any political person will have a much bigger problem so any emails you send them probably get lost. It's easy for people to flood politicians with emails. They don't know if you're a constituent...

Calling on the phone is a little harder to fake, you're more likely a real constituent that might actually vote for or against him

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romann
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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by romann » December 5th, 2018, 12:20 am

It could go the direction of Bend - but we may also look at Seattle area as an example. I think except for Enchantments in the early 1980's, forest service there stayed away from limiting access. You can hike from any other trailhead with just NW Forest Pass and self-issue Wilderness permit. There are specific and narrow restrictions in many areas, like no "camping at X Lake" (very few lakes are restricted), "leash dogs on trails A, B and C" (this is common), no fires above specific elevation (very common), etc. And average trail 10 miles from I-90 has double cars as Angel's Rest, on a nice weekend. There can be a dozen groups camping at relatively unknown "average" lake (nowhere close to top-10 destinations in Seattle area) and the FS is fine with this.

Here on Mt. Hood, I think overly restricted scenario is not likely because of commercial ski areas. The Gorge along Historic Hwy to exit 35 is tourist area (no NW Pass) with many trailheads limited by available parking. Hopefully, as Bobcat said, State Parks will be accommodating to hikers in most of rest of the Gorge. Dog Mtn is unusual because it's manged by Forest Service.

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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by jessbee » December 5th, 2018, 9:25 pm

romann wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 12:20 am
It could go the direction of Bend - but we may also look at Seattle area as an example. I think except for Enchantments in the early 1980's, forest service there stayed away from limiting access. You can hike from any other trailhead with just NW Forest Pass and self-issue Wilderness permit. There are specific and narrow restrictions in many areas, like no "camping at X Lake" (very few lakes are restricted), "leash dogs on trails A, B and C" (this is common), no fires above specific elevation (very common), etc. And average trail 10 miles from I-90 has double cars as Angel's Rest, on a nice weekend. There can be a dozen groups camping at relatively unknown "average" lake (nowhere close to top-10 destinations in Seattle area) and the FS is fine with this.

Here on Mt. Hood, I think overly restricted scenario is not likely because of commercial ski areas. The Gorge along Historic Hwy to exit 35 is tourist area (no NW Pass) with many trailheads limited by available parking. Hopefully, as Bobcat said, State Parks will be accommodating to hikers in most of rest of the Gorge. Dog Mtn is unusual because it's manged by Forest Service.
Just you wait, if this goes through there will be a new precedent set and it will be easier for other land managers to follow suit.
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romann
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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by romann » December 5th, 2018, 11:25 pm

jessbee wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 9:25 pm
Just you wait, if this goes through there will be a new precedent set and it will be easier for other land managers to follow suit.
I heard there's a similar (to what they propose) limit system on trails in California's Sierras. But they have what, 39+ million people. And they get tourists from all over the country.

Central Oregon would be the last place on the West coast that could justify such a system, so far from major population centers. Like you say - if it happens in Deschutes and Willamette NF, it can happen anywhere. But if hikers can stop that, it will also set a precedent, so other land managers will think twice before trying something like this.

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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by jessbee » December 6th, 2018, 10:56 am

romann wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 11:25 pm
jessbee wrote:
December 5th, 2018, 9:25 pm
Just you wait, if this goes through there will be a new precedent set and it will be easier for other land managers to follow suit.
I heard there's a similar (to what they propose) limit system on trails in California's Sierras. But they have what, 39+ million people. And they get tourists from all over the country.

Central Oregon would be the last place on the West coast that could justify such a system, so far from major population centers. Like you say - if it happens in Deschutes and Willamette NF, it can happen anywhere. But if hikers can stop that, it will also set a precedent, so other land managers will think twice before trying something like this.
Yes, it's kind of bonkers to think that of ALL places, it's Central Oregon that's proposing this system. Why here and why now?

Regarding the Sierra, I haven't been there but the FS website says:
Wilderness permits are required on the Sierra National Forest for all overnight trips into the John Muir, Ansel Adams, Dinkey and Kaiser Wildernesses. Trailhead quotas are in place year round. A wilderness permit is not required for day hikes into the wilderness areas.
(emphasis mine)

So even there, no DAY USE permits are in effect.

I am not convinced the Deschutes and Willamette National Forests have utilized all the other tools in their toolkit before proposing these drastic measures. So, the fight goes on. I've learned more than I ever wanted to know about government procedures in the past several months and I've got a lot left to learn. I can only hope that we have a strong enough collective voice to mobilize and prevent this change from happening on such a broad scale.
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Guy
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Re: Permits coming to the Gorge? Mt Hood?

Post by Guy » December 6th, 2018, 11:07 am

jessbee wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 10:56 am
I am not convinced the Deschutes and Willamette National Forests have utilized all the other tools in their toolkit before proposing these drastic measures. So, the fight goes on. I've learned more than I ever wanted to know about government procedures in the past several months and I've got a lot left to learn. I can only hope that we have a strong enough collective voice to mobilize and prevent this change from happening on such a broad scale.
Keep us posted on further action we can take Jessbee. I did file comments originally so was allowed to object but I don't think that really matters to them. Heck the initial comments didn't either! I've also registered my opposition with Oregon's senators.
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