So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

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Guy
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So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Guy » May 21st, 2018, 7:25 pm

Well it seems we finally have an answer about the cost of those folks being paid to sit in cars 24/7 at various Gorge roads and parks. A mere 200K a month.

http://www.kptv.com/story/38242376/secu ... start=true

A mere 200K a month! What a colossal waste of money most of that has been. But that's just my humble opinion!
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romann
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by romann » May 22nd, 2018, 12:17 am

And their reasoning can apply to any place, any time. After all, people were getting injured and died in the Gorge every year, so keeping people out will save lives ;)
“We’re not going to put a value or a cost on keeping people safe,” said Hamilton. “We’re keeping these roads closed and spending the money it takes to keep those roads closed because we don’t want anyone to get injured or die in these areas and that’s really what it amounts to.”
BTW it goes above my head why they keep so many areas closed which didn't burn, but quite a few places that did burn are open. Places like Palmer Mill Rd and west side of Larch never caught fire, but still off-limits.

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Chip Down
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Chip Down » May 22nd, 2018, 4:34 am

I'm surprised they don't have uniformed sworn LEOs serving guard duty. It would make for a much more daunting display of authority, which seems to be what this really is.

Apparently these sentries have no authority to lay hands on anybody, so I guess you could just smile, wish them a good morning, and carry on with your plans. :D

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drm
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by drm » May 23rd, 2018, 8:19 am

It is ridiculous, but if they could write 1000 tickets per month for violators who sneak around, that would cover a lot of it! :twisted: It's also a tiny fraction of the $36million restitution.

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retired jerry
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by retired jerry » May 23rd, 2018, 8:48 am

it would be worth it if it prevented a few people from sneaking in and hurting themselves/having to be rescued

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Don Nelsen
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Don Nelsen » May 23rd, 2018, 5:29 pm

retired jerry wrote:
May 23rd, 2018, 8:48 am
it would be worth it if it prevented a few people from sneaking in and hurting themselves/having to be rescued
Well, sure, if you really want "Big Brother" watching your every move. What's next - sentries at trailheads making sure hikers all have the ten essentials, have taken a CPR class, have everything needed for the weather and trail conditions, and on and on?

Some of the problem may be that the FS fears lawsuits. I suggest they lobby congress to make them immune from suits provided they have placed proper warning signs. It would be complicated to get this done but I'm getting very tired of an overprotective bunch of bureaucrats afraid of lawyers. Don't get me started!!!

dn
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"If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do" - Warren Miller

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retired jerry
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by retired jerry » May 23rd, 2018, 5:46 pm

good point, I'm just counting dollars, a few trespassers could cost the same as the cost of the car sitters

this might be a special case where people are more likely to trespass and the risk is bigger. In general, they should just post warnings. And public service announcements or whatever.

I don't think they should prohibit law suits, but it seems like there are too many. I wonder how the bridge to Ramona Falls suit is going? Now they'll never put a bridge there again 🤢

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Guy
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Guy » May 23rd, 2018, 6:04 pm

Don Nelsen wrote:
May 23rd, 2018, 5:29 pm
Well, sure, if you really want "Big Brother" watching your every move. What's next - sentries at trailheads making sure hikers all have the ten essentials, have taken a CPR class, have everything needed for the weather and trail conditions, and on and on?
dn
:lol: :lol:

It begs the question how many trespassers has this 200K a month prevented I mean they have still issued 100 citations and 1000 verbal warnings right? Didn't stop those folks. It's still boggling my mind how 10 - 20 people sitting in cars 24 hours a day with a matching number of lightly used porta potties can run up that kind of bill. I'm beginning to wonder who the contractor is and how they got the job?

How many trail miles could be fixed for 200k a month? I predict that soon we will be hearing about the Larch Mt and Fern Creek Bridges being burned out and how there is no money to fix them. yada yada yada....

(I'm not really a grumpy old man I just sound like one sometimes)
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Don Nelsen
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by Don Nelsen » May 23rd, 2018, 6:23 pm

Guy wrote:
May 23rd, 2018, 6:04 pm
It begs the question how many trespassers has this 200K a month prevented I mean they have still issued 100 citations and 1000 verbal warnings right? Didn't stop those folks. It's still boggling my mind how 10 - 20 people sitting in cars 24 hours a day with a matching number of lightly used porta potties can run up that kind of bill. I'm beginning to wonder who the contractor is and how they got the job?

How many trail miles could be fixed for 200k a month? I predict that soon we will be hearing about the Larch Mt and Fern Creek Bridges being burned out and how there is no money to fix them. yada yada yada....

(I'm not really a grumpy old man I just sound like one sometimes)
Exactly! I hiked Defiance today and I'm not sure whether I'm more pissed at the loser who started the fire or the FS for keeping this trail closed for the past 8 months. - and that's not to mention their incompetence in fighting this fire - but that is another story! There is and was nothing wrong with this trail and I can see no reason whatsoever for the FS to have banned us from it. There is no rockfall of any significance, there are just a few trees and brush over the trail (on the regular Defiance trail - the Starvation trail is untouched). I could see no new saw cuts so I don't think any work has been done yet. One person with a chain saw could fix all encumbrances in a day or less. What little downfall there is above the wilderness boundary is minimal.

$220k/month could have repaired every trail in the gorge by now. This is disgustingly ridiculous and these people get paid for this!!?

You know, my GF, Kelly told me that a few years ago when she worked for the state of OR she took a suggestion to her supervisor. He agreed that her suggestion would save a lot of time and money and be more efficient. He told her, though, and this is a direct quote: "We don't want efficiency, we want jobs".

I'm not really a grumpy old man either, just a realist who is very tired of paying (in taxes) for incompetance.

dn
"Everything works in the planning stage" - Kelly

"If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do" - Warren Miller

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retired jerry
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Re: So how much do those folks sitting in cars cost?

Post by retired jerry » May 23rd, 2018, 6:24 pm

The question is, how many more trespassers would there have been if there hadn't have been car sitters. And what would the financial damage have been, and human damage.

No good way to determine that.

If you could run the experiment, say 10 times with car sitters, and 10 times without, then you'd know.

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