Oregon Hikers

Aimless wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 10:20 am

I must say that Chip's summary of the article was entirely misleading and unfair, and his sarcasm was misplaced in my view.

As an example, the hungover hike Chip highlighted happened about one decade ago and was used as the lead-in because it provided such a stark contrast to how that hiker thinks, and what she does NOW

Okay, I see your point about the hung-over hiker story. It wasn't the essence of the Merc story, but it was the sole example in my post, so that wasn't ideal. It did stand out for me though, because it struck me as so absurd.

I didn't think my very-brief sarcasm was all that awful. I mean, in the rest of my post I did raise some genuine questions, so it's not as if my primary reason in posting was to snicker at Jenny (Hangover Hiker.)

Bosterson wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 2:58 pm

retired jerry wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 11:37 am

Is it okay to say "fat queer hikers"

It's effectively a quote from the article.

Yikes! Sorry if anybody read my post wrong. I would never refer to somebody as a fat queer hiker, unless they identified as such (which they did in this case).

Steve20050 wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 4:37 pm

I often stop to talk to people when I do run into someone. Just a matter of courtesy.

One thing to note is that offering unsolicited "encouragement" to strangers is generally poor form. (I'm not trying to imply Steve is doing this; it's just on the topic of taking to people on the trails.) Further, with respect to people recommending, unsolicited, that strangers (whether or not their looks diverge from the REI catalog norm) take a "rest" - well, we already have a word for people who say stuff like that to strangers: they're called assholes. I feel like that kind of patronizing is a generational thing (kids these days have their heads in Instagram and don't even give you a courtesy hello), though Chip, since you claim to be getting old, maybe you're guilty of it.

Bosterson wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 5:39 pm

Steve20050 wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 4:37 pm

I often stop to talk to people when I do run into someone. Just a matter of courtesy.

One thing to note is that offering unsolicited "encouragement" to strangers is generally poor form.

This was an interesting insight to me as it never occurred to be before. As I reflect on this now, I realize that when I've said it, it's probably been more likely to people who are "fighting to the finish" on a long climb that I'm coming down from.

I've frequently had people say things like "you're almost there!," and it does kind of bug me... But, because I'm a "likely hiker" (a thin white male), I know they're not being condescending, just annoyingly chirpy.

If you went for a hike and no one saw you, did you hike at all?

If you went for a hike and many people saw you, is your identity defined by those peoples' comments and behaviors?

If your self concept is not reflected/validated in the comments and behaviors of others, is that your problem--you haven't successfully telegraphed your essence? Or is it their problem--they are too arrogant, too self involved, too oblivious, too white, or too tired/hungry/thirsty to be perceptive?

My opinion is we must be true to ourselves. When I meet you while hiking, I don't know why you are hiking. I can't read minds. So I apologize if I don't reflect back what you think you are, or worse, reflect back your fears about yourself. And you likewise. You can't know why I'm hiking.

Perhaps, if we stopped and spoke, we could tell each other. But if we are not honest about our motivations, or have neither the empathy nor the language to communicate those motivations clearly, we will misunderstand. Hikers passing in the night!

And perhaps that failure to communicate is why #unlikelyhiker has 34,000 Instagram followers. A strength in numbers thing. A looking in the same direction thing. An I'm safe in this group thing.

So HYOH, and have a good time doing so, with or without a posse. Don't mind me at all.

Chip Down wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 5:38 pm

Aimless wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 10:20 am

I must say that Chip's summary of the article was entirely misleading and unfair, and his sarcasm was misplaced in my view.

As an example, the hungover hike Chip highlighted happened about one decade ago and was used as the lead-in because it provided such a stark contrast to how that hiker thinks, and what she does NOW

Okay, I see your point about the hung-over hiker story. It wasn't the essence of the Merc story, but it was the sole example in my post, so that wasn't ideal. It did stand out for me though, because it struck me as so absurd.

I didn't think my very-brief sarcasm was all that awful. I mean, in the rest of my post I did raise some genuine questions, so it's not as if my primary reason in posting was to snicker at Jenny (Hangover Hiker.)

Bosterson wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 2:58 pm

retired jerry wrote: ↑

April 15th, 2018, 11:37 am

Is it okay to say "fat queer hikers"

It's effectively a quote from the article.

Yikes! Sorry if anybody read my post wrong. I would never refer to somebody as a fat queer hiker, unless they identified as such (which they did in this case).

I didn't mean to criticize anyone

I think queer people have captured the term "queer" and turned it from an insult to normal

I'm with whoever said they hike alone, thus don't embrace anyone. Although I enjoy talking with people when that happens.

As an entitled white male of normal weight I probably don't appreciate the discrimination and bad will to overweight and queer people. I really love some personalities like Ellen Degeneres, Rachael Maddow, Anderson Cooper, and Andy Cohen, they're all so upbeat. Probably depressed behind the camera

I guess it is everyone else’s fault she doesn’t have friends to hike with nor was she prepared for a 6 mile hike.

My Darth Vader level empathy fuel tank is already empty. Sorry.

I have hiked for 30 years and do not find that "the hiking community" discriminates, but I do feel that the retailers do discriminate. REI does not stock anything larger than 2X and Columbia Sportswear struggles to add 4X on their clothing racks. I say struggle because I find their 4X pants are tight on me whereas Old navy's 2X pants are quite loose. There seems to be a body type companies like Columbia Sportswear, North Face and Patagonia cater to - thin and young. I'd appreciate that they focus on larger sizes for those of us who need to get out and sweat off a few pounds.

I strongly disagree that hiking is a white-male sport. I see more women than men on the trails than men. I do agree that Caucasians are the majority just as I would agree that white-collar professions are dominant. There aren't too many blue-collar workers who want to go out hiking on their day off, but office-bound people do want to get outside more often. If you disagree, take a survey next time you're in a group and you'll find more teachers, accountants and computer types than construction workers.

I have received quite a few interesting comments over the years do to my size, but I take it in stride. It must be humbling to have the fat guy out walk you after you have written him off as trailside roadkill. No problem, keep underestimating me and I'll try to keep a spot on the log open for you at lunchtime.

xrp wrote: ↑

April 16th, 2018, 6:56 am

I guess it is everyone else’s fault she doesn’t have friends to hike with nor was she prepared for a 6 mile hike.

My Darth Vader level empathy fuel tank is already empty. Sorry.

Did you read the article?

Two things - the solitude issue is common to many of us, but not universal. Many diverse groups have no interest in solitude, whether it is Hispanics or Japanese, they prefer larger groups.

Also, the newest Outside has a number of articles about the lack of diversity in the wilderness, and particularly in national parks. One survey found that some black people consider national parks to be not safe. It's not clear to me if the perceived danger was from bears or white nationalists or law enforcement.

Lastly, I would say that as individuals, our responsibility is simply to treat people fairly and evenly. But if you are involved in an organization, or especially employed by any agency or company that manages land for recreation, then there is a whole different set of responsibilities.