Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

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BigBear
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by BigBear » November 7th, 2017, 9:50 am

I'm not sure why anyone would make the argument that "the government does or does not have control over your salary" when justifying a price increase. Starbucks doesn't control my salary either, but they are bound by the same laws of price elasticity any other organization is when the product is a luxury. If your demand is elastic, you have the luxury of raising prices without consequences. However, if your demand is inelastic, you lose sales.

For Starbucks, my point of inelasticity was $5 for a venti...now I drink instant flavored coffee for about 35 cents a cup.
For The Oregonian it was $1 for a daily and $2 for a Sunday, now I browse the internet for free.
Feel free to pick the item you no longer purchase because the price became too high.

For national parks, the increase from $10 to $20 to $70 is too much for most visitors and demand will suffer. Again, it is a question of what is meant by "public" lands. I know what Trump's definition is...and it does not match mine.

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VanMarmot
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by VanMarmot » November 8th, 2017, 3:38 pm

Guy wrote:So as best as I can tell these are the actual enacted NPS budget figures going back to 2001:

Enacted NPS Budget in Billions

2016 3.38
2015 3.24
2014 3.10
2013 3.20
2012 3.01
2011 3.00
2010 3.15
2009 3.67 (0.75 Stimulus Boost)
2008 2.79
2007 2.67
2006 2.60
2005 2.68
2004 2.60
2003 2.63
2002 2.62
2001 2.62
And the F-22 program spent north of $60 billion for 187 operational aircraft - or 30 years of NPS. The F-35, if it reaches full build-out, will top $1.5 Trillion - 500+ years of NPS. Just some perspective on how "big" the NPS budget is relative to other "priorities."

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Guy
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by Guy » November 8th, 2017, 4:29 pm

VanMarmot wrote:
Guy wrote:So as best as I can tell these are the actual enacted NPS budget figures going back to 2001:

Enacted NPS Budget in Billions
........
And the F-22 program spent north of $60 billion for 187 operational aircraft - or 30 years of NPS. The F-35, if it reaches full build-out, will top $1.5 Trillion - 500+ years of NPS. Just some perspective on how "big" the NPS budget is relative to other "priorities."
Agreed!
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Bosterson
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by Bosterson » November 8th, 2017, 5:38 pm

Guy wrote:So as best as I can tell these are the actual enacted NPS budget figures going back to 2001:
Guy, since those are the "enacted" amounts, does that mean they're not inflation adjusted? If not, then a rough inflation calculation shows that in 2016, the NPS budget was below 2003 levels, and the average budget from 2004 - 2016 (omitting 2009 and 2010 as outliers due to the stimulus), is $3.22B, which is roughly .3B lower than the 2001 budget.

Here's a chart from the recreational spreadsheet I just made. :)
NPS budget 2001-2016 inflation adjusted.jpg
Will hike off trail for fun.

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Guy
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by Guy » November 8th, 2017, 5:53 pm

Bosterson wrote:
Guy wrote:So as best as I can tell these are the actual enacted NPS budget figures going back to 2001:
Guy, since those are the "enacted" amounts, does that mean they're not inflation adjusted? If not, then a rough inflation calculation shows that in 2016, the NPS budget was below 2003 levels, and the average budget from 2004 - 2016 (omitting 2009 and 2010 as outliers due to the stimulus), is $3.22B, which is roughly .3B lower than the 2001 budget.

Here's a chart from the recreational spreadsheet I just made. :)
NPS budget 2001-2016 inflation adjusted.jpg
Correct Nat I believe these are actual dollars so if you compare to inflation adjusted dollars spending has dropped about 5% when compared to 2001.

Re Jerry's graph also:

Image
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retired jerry
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by retired jerry » November 9th, 2017, 6:29 am

I used Libre open office - it's free - that has a huge amount of capability

My PC with Microsoft office 2003 died recently

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texasbb
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by texasbb » November 9th, 2017, 7:18 am

retired jerry wrote:I used Libre open office - it's free - that has a huge amount of capability
ImageLibreOffice
retired jerry wrote:My PC with Microsoft office 2003 died recently
Everyone gets lucky now and then! :D

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romann
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by romann » February 17th, 2018, 2:06 pm

Does anyone know if the increase was canceled or will go into effect later this year? (I may have missed it in this thread somewhere)

Mt Rainier fee schedule on their site didn't change from $25 in 2016. Hope it stays this way.

If national parks fee is set to go to $70, we may as well buy annual America the Beautiful pass for $80 - looks like it covers Forest Pass trailheads as well.

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drm
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by drm » February 25th, 2018, 11:33 am

romann wrote:Does anyone know if the increase was canceled or will go into effect later this year?
I can only find an article stating that they extended the comment period into December, nothing about a decision one way or the other. So I assume they are still considering it.

The underlying dynamic of this proposal is that those most popular parks get a large number if summer visitors from Asia and Europe who will not be sensitive to the price increase. Since they would not increase the cost of the full annual permit, maybe they are thinking that hardcore domestic NP visitors are already using that or will switch to it.

The visitors who will be lost are the more casual visitors, especially those who live closer and so go for day trips once or twice a year ($70 is not so unreasonable if you really are staying for a week). Seattlites going for short visits to Rainier or Olympic would be the main example. But that's probably a lot of people at those parks that are closer to cities.

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Guy
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Re: Zinke proposes $70 entrance fee at some National Parks

Post by Guy » February 25th, 2018, 6:21 pm

I heard on the news this morning that Crater Lake has proposed raising it's entrance fee from $15.00 to $45.00 on the excuse of bringing it to line with other similar sized national parks.

Apparently there will be a public comment period where the public comment and they pretend to listen.
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