Oil train derailment near Mosier

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kepPNW
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by kepPNW » July 21st, 2016, 10:19 am

retired jerry wrote:I only half listened, but I thought I heard that the oil trains to Vancouver, and then onto tankers was for West coast refineries.
My halfarsed understanding, as well. Thought the oil export ban had only just very recently been lifted?
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miah66
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by miah66 » July 21st, 2016, 10:20 am

kepPNW wrote:Thought the oil export ban had only just very recently been lifted?
Convenient, huh?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/congression ... 1450242995
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retired jerry
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by retired jerry » July 21st, 2016, 11:32 am

maybe moot because Vancouver voted to not allow terminal?

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miah66
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by miah66 » July 21st, 2016, 11:39 am

retired jerry wrote:maybe moot because Vancouver voted to not allow terminal?
No, ironically, that city council resolution has no bearing on the largest oil terminal in North America going forward since the process was started before the resolution was passed. It's strange that people have very little say in what happens in their own community.

http://www.kptv.com/story/32474905/vanc ... trial-zone
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by kepPNW » July 22nd, 2016, 11:58 am

miah66 wrote:It's strange that people have very little say in what happens in their own community.
Pretty much always been the case with railroads out west, it seems. :evil:

Inslee will have the final say on it, though, and he's subject to some political pressure.
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retired jerry
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by retired jerry » July 22nd, 2016, 12:29 pm

I was listening to NPR

They said that citizen initiatives were originated so citizens could do stuff when the legislature was unwilling to because of special interests

But now, special interests hire people to get the signatures to qualify a citizen's initiative. If you ask enough people, some of them will sign pretty much anything. Then have huge advertising campaign to get them passed. The special interests have captured this process.

I think there are a record number in Washington this year.

I was thinking about the initiative to sell hard liquor in grocery stores a couple years ago. Costco and other companies were dumping huge amounts of money on getting it passed because they could make money off it. Some other corporate interests were dumping huge amounts of money against it because they made money that way.

Okay, maybe we could fix this by not allowing special interests to spend money on citizen initiatives.

Maybe, it's better to not have citizens directly vote on issues. You get mob rule. Don't protect minorities. Those founders were wise.

Maybe I'm romanticizing the wisdom of the founders :)

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Guy
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by Guy » July 22nd, 2016, 1:31 pm

Maybe, it's better to not have citizens directly vote on issues. You get mob rule. Don't protect minorities.
Those are fighting words Jerry :)

Personally I am a huge supporter of citizens initiatives, yes they can be manipulated as you describe but I think less so than elected legislators can be and they do give a final voice to to electorate at large when enough people think that their elected officials are not listening to them.
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