Oil train derailment near Mosier

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greenjello85
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by greenjello85 » July 8th, 2016, 10:51 am

http://www.opb.org/news/series/oil-trai ... bia-gorge/

No government investigation because nobody was killed and the NTSB has already seen oil cars rupture. Ummm if they have already seen them rupture, why not do something about it? It seems government regulators are far too cozy with the industry.

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retired jerry
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by retired jerry » July 8th, 2016, 11:42 am

No, it's that the super wealthy have bought our government and have got concessions in return.

As a result, the super wealthy have got an unfair share of the increases in income and wealth.

As Bernie has been harping about, but it's not really conservative or liberal or libertarian.

Maybe the popularity of Bernie and Trump will scare the people in power to share things more.

If "they" can get as to argue about liberal/conservative issues, like whether abortion should be illegal, or guns should be more regulated, it will distract us from what they're doing.

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Waffle Stomper
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by Waffle Stomper » July 8th, 2016, 4:05 pm

Oil isn't the only hazardous cargo carried on rails. Perhaps a larger overview of the safety of the rails is in order. What would the impacts of a cloud of chlorine gas, or a sulphuric acid spill, or . . .

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/226/hazard ... icals.html
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

Aimless
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by Aimless » July 8th, 2016, 4:58 pm

Maybe the popularity of Bernie and Trump will scare the people in power to share things more.


I don't think they scare all that easily. Instead rising opposition just inspires them to think of new and better ways to exert control. :(

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retired jerry
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by retired jerry » July 8th, 2016, 5:06 pm

Supposedly, FDR was able to push through his New Deal legislation because the 0.1% were afraid the country would go communist

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retired jerry
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by retired jerry » July 8th, 2016, 5:14 pm

There is other hazardous cargo, but with oil, there are so many cars. There's a bigger chance that one of them will be envolved with an accident.

We keep having oil car fires. Their response is to make them with stronger walls or whatever. It just seems like that's futile. I don't think it would be good for even the safer cars to de-rail.

Crude should be carried by pipeline. If they build them to the highest standards, the risk will be low. And if the standards change, they should have to upgrade, not be grandfathered in.

There was a pipeline spill on the coast in California recently, but that had not been upgraded to highest standards, for example they didn't have frequent automatic shutoff valves so any spill is minimized.

Aimless
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by Aimless » July 8th, 2016, 5:46 pm

On the subject of just how scared the 0.1% were of FDR and their methods of dealing with that fear, google "Major General Smedley Butler".

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retired jerry
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by retired jerry » July 8th, 2016, 7:47 pm

Smedley Butler was tapped by businessmen to do a facist coup to overthrow FDR. That's the opposite end of the spectrum from communists. A good story. Things were more interesting back then, believe it or not.

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Waffle Stomper
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by Waffle Stomper » July 9th, 2016, 1:04 pm

retired jerry wrote: Crude should be carried by pipeline. If they build them to the highest standards, the risk will be low. And if the standards change, they should have to upgrade, not be grandfathered in.
.
The thing with pipelines is twofold, one the amount of oil spilled when a pipeline leaks is much higher than by train. Secondly, nobody wants a pipeline going through their backyard. The amount of resistance would be significant, not just by those concerned by the environment but also by private landowners. Agricultural interests including private timberland owners do not want their useful land diminished by any amount. It would come as a significant cost to all involved both in the area of property acquistion and potential eminent domain court proceedings. Imagine what resistance there would be if a pipeline was proposed to go through the gorge or the monumental cost to run one through the cascades somewhere which would provide it's own set of technical problems.

We already have an infrastructure of railroads built, which can be used for transporting goods. To shift oil to pipelines still does not address the issue of other toxic chemicals that are carried by rail.

What I find unfortunate is that any oil transported to the west coast is not likely going to serve the west coast while we all bear the burden of all the potential hazards. Although the question of shipping crude to the west might be a non-issue now that the Panama Canal can accommodate supertankers.
"When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir

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retired jerry
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Re: Oil train derailment near Mosier

Post by retired jerry » July 9th, 2016, 2:26 pm

good points. No clear answer.

there is already a pipeline for crude to go to the gulf, maybe just use that. Maybe they would have to upgrade it for capacity. They must want to got to the west coast because it's cheaper for west coast refineries.

But if they go pipeline to gulf, to tanker, to west coast refinery it doesn't seem like it would be that much more expensive than oil train to west coast, to tanker, to refinery.

I think the oil in gorge trains is bound for west coast refineries. But I bet they'll later expand to shipping it to Asia.

Oil trains are worse than other dangerous chemicals because there are so many cars. Lets say you had 100 cars of oil for each car of other dangerous chemical. If you could eliminate the oil cars, you would reduce the chance of a spill by 99%.

Maybe they could build a pipeline to west coast on railroad right-of-way. Maybe they could go pipeline to below Bonneville, then by tanker. That would avoid a lot of cities, and the people east of Bonneville tend to be more in favor of things like pipelines (eastern Oregon, Idaho,...)

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