Access to private lands

[jdemott]

There is a thought provoking article in today's (4-24-2016) New York Times about access to privately owned lands for walking. Here's the link, although I'm not sure what pay-wall restrictions may apply: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/24/opini ... inion&_r=0

The general thesis is that many European countries, unlike the U.S., afford walkers a broad right of access to privately owned woodlands, fields, hills, etc., as long as they act appropriately. Those rights of access go well beyond the public footpaths in England; they allow walkers to basically wander anywhere on undeveloped property. In fact, in some countries, landowners are forbidden to erect fences that would restrict public access. Obviously, the situation here is just the reverse...landowners have basically unlimited right to prevent trespassing.

The article also makes the point the we in the U.S. have access to a lot of public lands where walkers can roam freely, but five states (including Oregon) have half of all the public land in America but have only a couple percent of the population. People in other states have very few opportunities to wander freely.

[Koda]

People in other states have very few opportunities to wander freely.

that’s because they voted to sell their public lands to private entities, they wrote their own book to their own undoing trapped in their urban jungle. Many of those lands are private ranches where the ranchers control the land management. Here in Oregon the ranchers get a permit to graze on public lands where the public manages the lands. We didn’t sell out... or haven’t yet, the pressure is on.

I'm not certain the European system would work so well over here.... one thing the article failed to mention is the US has some of the best thru hiking in the world, its not like we are lacking the ability to walk across America on foot. The author was misleading us in that aspect with his reference to hiking the proposed Keystone pipeline route on private lands... he doesn’t have to go there for his thru hike and in fact he can freely walk across America in the woods on public lands.

[adamschneider]

It's worth mentioning that both Oregon and Washington (and probably other states as well, although maybe only western states?) have laws that absolve property owners from liability when they allow their land to be used for recreation:

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/105.682
http://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=4.24.210

These laws make it much easier for landowners to skip the "no trespassing" signs.

[justpeachy]

The article also makes the point the we in the U.S. have access to a lot of public lands where walkers can roam freely

For now. There is this very scary attitude by some politicians that public land as it now exists is a bad thing. They're even going after national parks.

[Charley]

I read that article and found it interesting, but unconvincing. If I were a farmer, I'd be downright hostile.

I understand why the author traveled the route he did, following Keystone, but that's not a very practical or scenic route. It's not even the most practical or scenic route in the Midwest! It's not that America suffers a lack of trails, it's just that their distribution is uneven: we do have lots on the West and one big one on the East. But there are other "long trails" around the nation, and many of those are possible due to easements on private land. There's the River to River Trail in Illinois and the Ice Age National Scenic Trail in Wisconsin. So, though Chicagoans may bemoan the lack of trails nearby (I sure would if forced to live there) they should take heart that there are options for long trips in the region, at least.

I think a better solution is to increase the amount of public land. I'd also like to see Nature Conservancy properties encourage LNT backpacking. Public/private partnerships could create a rather large quilt of opportunities throughout the nation, much like the Appalachian Trail.

[Koda]

I think a better solution is to increase the amount of public land.

Bingo, We do need to continue to increase our public lands and protect current public lands from being sold. Americas public lands is our greatest resource.

Its kind of hard to argue that Europe has a better system when we have more public lands and trails for walking…. we truly have a better system.

Not including the PCT, CDT and the AT, if you combine the North Country trail with the Pacific Northwest National trail you can literally walk across America… in the woods. We have a total of 11 national thru trails to hike totaling well over 18000 miles of walking. Oregon also has the Oregon Coast trail and the Oregon High Desert trail and isn’t there a group building a thru trail in the Gorge?

[jdemott]

If you spend any time with rural landowners, generally you find that they don't have much problem with other people from the same area using their land for shortcuts, horseback riding, chasing lost cattle, or whatever. But many of them have found from sad experience that strangers from outside the area don't necessarily act appropriately --they leave gates open, they dump trash, they build fires, they shoot guns without asking permission to hunt, and so on. And of course there is the worry about liability if someone gets hurt.

Perhaps the culture in places like Scotland or Norway gives people clearer expectations about treating other people's property respectfully. We seem to have plenty of problems with behavior on public lands.

Agreed we need to continue to be vigilant to protect and enhance our public lands. I think if I lived in the East, I would have a lot more interest in the possibility of getting access to some privately owned forest lands for hiking.

[Koda]

When I think of private land I think of individuals like you or me not large scale corporations. I think we should prohibit large corporate entities from owning public lands. They should have to lease or get permits to operate.…

[Guy]

I think both systems have merit. & Before I get jumped on! I'm not advocating for the sale of public lands but I also don't think purchasing land so that a trail can be built is always the most logical answer. I see the the Gorge as a perfect place where rights of way could be used to connect existing areas of public land and so creating a through hike. Of course land owners also need something in return for the granted easement.

Its kind of hard to argue that Europe has a better system when we have more public lands and trails for walking…. we truly have a better system

Yes I agree it is a better system here in the West with low population densities. In the East and in Europe which has a much higher population density I don't believe it's even an option on such a large scale as it is here.

We certainly have more public land here than in the UK for example and that brings all kinds of recreational opportunities (hunting, fishing etc) that people in the UK don't have but if you are just counting trail miles we don't have more, it's not possible to walk from any town or village to any other town or village here in Oregon using only trails, it is anywhere in the UK.

[Koda]

....but if you are just counting trail miles we don't have more, it's not possible to walk from any town or village to any other town or village here in Oregon using only trails, it is anywhere in the UK.

I didn’t know that about the UK, that would be a huge benefit culturally and recreationaly if we could here.

I thought (my impression) is that on the east coast many of the private lands are owned by large corporations that heavily restrict or prohibit access? If so it would be a good compromise if corporate entities were required to allow pedestrian access on their undeveloped lands like the European example the article suggested.