Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

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kepPNW
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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by kepPNW » March 2nd, 2014, 8:15 am

Splintercat wrote:One thing that might really help the grow sites around the Gorge and Mount Hood is the emergence of legalized marijuana in the State of Washington.
Hopefully Oregon too? Seems inevitable...
Karl
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retired jerry
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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by retired jerry » March 2nd, 2014, 8:17 am

Somebody on NPR said they thought it would be a few years for the black market to dry up, based on prohibition repeal example. Maybe 25% of black market will be gone the first year.

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forester
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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by forester » March 2nd, 2014, 6:42 pm

No one ever looks at what the impact of legalization would have on our schools. It would be absolutely devastating.

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Excursionista
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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by Excursionista » March 2nd, 2014, 7:41 pm

forester wrote:No one ever looks at what the impact of legalization would have on our schools. It would be absolutely devastating.
What?

Legalization is quite different from decriminalization, and minors aren't allowed to purchase or possess marijuana in any US state where it has been decriminalized. I imagine that as a social issue, marijuana is a topic of study and debate in high school, at least in classes on current affairs or politics. Furthermore, the state could tax marijuana products as well as hemp and use those taxes to support schools. As the industry grows (no pun intended), colleges will begin offering classes on growing marijuana and hemp on an industrial scale, on related law, and on related business topics. Hemp will reduce the demand on timber harvesting and consequently have a positive effect on our environment and recreational opportunities for today's youth.

Kids already smoke pot. That hasn't changed for decades. Adults smoke pot, too. And the fact of the matter is, many people can illegally obtain marijuana within one hour of reading this sentence, often less. Legalization will not make it more accessible than it already is. In fact, it may reduce the ability of kids to get pot, by regulating it in a manner similar to alcohol and by reducing or shifting the after-market (ie the black market).

So, what impact will legalizing marijuana have on our schools?

I lurk on this site for hiking topics, and it seems to me that if anything marijuana and hemp have the potential to make a better world - and better outdoor experiences, including hiking - for young adults.

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Guy
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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by Guy » March 2nd, 2014, 8:19 pm

I smoked pot (well Afgan black hashish actually) for a few years in the 80's while at college in the UK & then when I lived in & France. In those days you had to work hard to "score an eight of Afgan black or Lebanese brown!". When I came to America in '85 I thought it was going to be great, pot available whenever I wanted to buy it - and it was! However I soon realized it was the thrill of the search & the chase that I was hooked on not the pot! When it was easily available it soon lost it's appeal & I haven't rolled a joint since '86!

More importantly when I lived in Europe I always thought that there was no down side to pot as I'd never met anyone who had access to enough to smoke regularly. That changed when I moved to America. It wasn't long before I met lots of people who's productivity & general ability was severely reduced because of pot.

Yes I know lots of people can function perfectly well using pot as recreational drug just like alcohol but on the other side many others can not. I think we already have far too many unproductive people & we don't need a any more. That's why when it comes up on the ballot here in Oregon I'll be voting NO. Even though I fear that my vote will be in vain.

I'll duck for cover now ;)
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Excursionista
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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by Excursionista » March 2nd, 2014, 8:38 pm

Guy, our views are not irreconcilable.

I don't believe that legalization/decriminalization will significantly change the number of people who use marijuana. But it will remove the shame factor and make it easier to obtain for those who use it as a medicine. It will prevent productive, contributing members of society from suffering fines or jail time for using marijuana, whether it's a puff in a back-country campsite while star-gazing, or before watching a movie, or whatever. The benefits to industry and society outweigh the risk that a few more people may choose, of their own volition, to use marijuana and find that it affects their life in a negative manner. It isn't up to you or me to tell people how much to smoke, just as we don't tell people how much they can drink (with some exceptions for driving, etc). And sure, there are laws regulating alcohol consumption, as there would be for marijuana, but people will do what they want whether it's legal or smart or illegal or stupid. That's why prohibition doesn't work. Besides, alcohol also prevents people from living their life to the fullest; the myth that marijuana turns everyone into unmotivated slackers is just that - a myth.

To bring it back around to hiking, let's just say that I'd rather smell pot smoke in the woods than tobacco smoke. I'd rather car-camp near laid-back pot smokers than people who have drunk too much. I prefer intact ancient forests and hemp fields to clear-cuts and second-growth. And decriminalization will greatly reduce the risk that I bush-wack my way into a booby-trapped grow area.

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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by aircooled » March 2nd, 2014, 8:42 pm

Guy wrote: However I soon realized it was the thrill of the search & the chase that I was hooked on ...
That's true for a lot of things, Guy! :roll: I'm talking, of course, about the hunts for lost treasures.

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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by forester » March 2nd, 2014, 8:57 pm

I have zero problem with people who smoke responsibly. None. If you and I were hiking together, I'd have no problem with you doing so, nor would I look down on you for it. The problem is the high number who cannot do so responsibly. I taught for 3.5 years in a Juvenile Detention Center and Shelter facility. Not only the kids throwing their lives away in a jail for smoking something illegal, but for stealing things to pay for the habit. We all have to live with the rules created to handle the jerks of our chosen hobby/interest.

I agree with you on camping next to pot smokers vs. drinkers. I won't camp next to drinkers. That never seems to work out well.

Correct. Minors wouldn't be "allowed" to purchase pot. Just like they aren't now. They also wouldn't be allowed to possess or use pot. Just like now. Unfortunately, they're still getting their hands on it pretty easily. Remember, when their parents do it, they tend to as well. This goes for pot, booze, pills, hard drugs, etc. No 14-year old is buying whiskey from a liquor store.

Currently, schools are overwhelmed with the increase in pot usage among students. It has spiked sharply over the last year or so. And not just in the high schools. And not just in the middle schools. At the school I work at, it has reached epidemic proportions. Behavioral issues, attendance, academics, graduation rate. Yes, students have always smoked pot, it's just that it is a lot higher percentage that are doing it now. Many people think our schools are terrible already...so let's legalize a drug that has the main side effect of lack of motivation. I see kids smoking themselves out of school every.single.day. No diploma, no GED, no nothing. Guess what they're going to go on? Not only welfare, but they'll connive their way onto disability and get a green card. For many of these students, that is their Holy Grail.

I disagree with any drug being legalized that is highly addictive to many (not all). (If pot isn't addictive, why do people choose to use it, knowing they'll lose their jobs and/or go to jail?) I also disagree the government will be able to profit off it or they'll shut down the people with growlights in their garage. You really think that when usage goes up due to legalization, all of a sudden everyone who was growing before will stop??? "Demand is way up, I better get out of business now." The fact that pot usage will increase won't shut those people down, it will make them harder to trace due to a flooded market.

Comparing pot growth to alcohol creation is kind of silly. Beer and/or booze is much more complicated to make than growing pot.

I agree with hemp, but I don't understand why you'd bring it up. They are two different plants with two different usages. Hemp was victim of a ridiculous propaganda attack, simple as that.

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romann
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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by romann » March 4th, 2014, 12:50 am

Seeing those old grow sites always creeps me.

I had a coworker whose ability was going down because of pot. In the end, he had trouble just being able to show up at work by afternoon. Great guy, I never looked down on his habit, but it's depressing to see what smoking has done to him. And if you ask, I don't think legalizing will make any positive or negative difference, no way he can spend $2000 (?) on a license anyway.

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Koda
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Re: Don and Jeff find a grow site 2-27-2014

Post by Koda » March 4th, 2014, 9:31 am

Excursionista wrote: I lurk on this site for hiking topics, and it seems to me that if anything marijuana and hemp have the potential to make a better world - and better outdoor experiences, including hiking - for young adults.
Promoting young adults to use a drug? Promoting outdoor activities while high? I’d say anyone who needs a drug to make a better world or better experience, or hike has a problem with that drug. I don’t mean to be rude, but the idea of encouraging anyone down a path of drug use is wrong and I had to say something. I don’t care how much anyone argues MJ is “good” for you, is better than alcohol, has health benefits… it’s still a drug. Alcohol is legal and nobody is encouraging anyone to drink, especially ‘young’ adults.

Not my intention to upset anyone, I am usually tolerant with being around MJ but see an ulterior motive by encouraging others to take up your vise. Marijuana does not have any potential to make the world a better place.
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