Jefferson Park 10.22.16

[romann]

I have little time for real trip report, just wanted to say Jefferson Park got some snow but still easily accessible



With a nice Saturday forecast, I drove Friday from work and slept at the trailhead, to make the most use of daylight next day. Started seeing snow a couple miles from the Park; it got more consistent after Whitewater Creek crossing. There were still some fall colors left




As you approach Jeff Park, you'll see this sign. What wilderness permit tells (and this sign isn't), is it's not permitted to camp anywhere but designated sites, without regard to distance from the lakes - and only with reservation.Edit - this sign is actually true, but it doesn't give complete information, see discussion below this post. The camp NE of Scout Lake was the only one I saw that didn't have snow yet (under large trees)


Up in the Park everything looked wintry, but lakes were only starting to freeze - the moment I hoped to see for a few years but always missed! This is Scout Lake, with its famous reflection


I forgot just how large the mountain looks from there


Bays Lake




Park Butte from Bays Lake...


and over partially frozen Park Lake


Not much snow - about 6-8 inches in most places with some bare areas, although it got progressively deeper as I approached Russell Lake


All the small ponds were frozen




Russell was about 2/3 frozen and snow got too deep so I decided to stop at first overlook at the lake. There was a group camping with hammocks - seems like good choice for snowy conditions.


It's been nice to see high country one more time before winter, and enjoy sun and open views!

[Water]

hmmm... going to have to research that camping ban. i don't believe it/think they must be trying to scare people into buying permits..

Anyways beautiful pictures-didn't get up there this year and suppose it won't be happening until next at the soonest.

cheers!

[drm]

What wilderness permit tells (and this sign isn't), is it's not permitted to camp anywhere but designated sites, without regard to distance from the lakes - and only with reservation.

This confused me as well as it is contradictory. I had called and spoken to a ranger at the Detroit office who said you could camp away from the lakes. I came to the conclusion that these signs must be old, pre-reservation, and they just never removed or adjusted them. Maybe they want to discourage that kind of camping without banning it, so they didn't bother to remove the signs.

[CampinCarl]

The hashed area looks like a ban on campfires. The text says no camping without permit within 250 ft of lakes, so there may be areas you can camp within the fire ban area. At least that's how I read it. Not a very good map, looks like it was from pre- permit days.

[romann]

Yes hard to tell, trailhead permit I had to sign was telling about using marked camps in "Jefferson Park area". And I figured camping & fire zones overlap, otherwise there would be 2 different maps . It's actually good news about beta from FS office in Detroit, hope that ranger and the one who patrols the Park are in agreement. Seems logical they'd restrict camping near most popular lakes, rather than all over Jeff Park.

Anyway, I put my tent in the edge of parking lot overnight (there were only 2 other cars until more people started to arrive about 9 am), that seems like a safe bet

[-Q-]

Yes hard to tell, trailhead permit I had to sign was telling about using marked camps in "Jefferson Park area". And I figured camping & fire zones overlap, otherwise there would be 2 different maps . It's actually good news about beta from FS office in Detroit, hope that ranger and the one who patrols the Park are in agreement. Seems logical they'd restrict camping near most popular lakes, rather than all over Jeff Park.

Anyway, I put my tent in the edge of parking lot overnight (there were only 2 other cars until more people started to arrive about 9 am), that seems like a safe bet

I had a long conversation with the Jeff park backcountry ranger this summer. He echoed what the ranger station told you... Camping by the lakes requires a permit; dispersed camping away from the lakes is allowed and does not require a permit, but the campsite must be on all dirt, no flora at all. The FS is discouraging dispersed camping.

I also asked about any future plans to limit day hikers like at pamelia and obsidian. The answer was a resounding no.

[drm]

but the campsite must be on all dirt, no flora at all. The FS is discouraging dispersed camping.

When we looked for a site beyond Russell Lake, it took us quite a while to find bare ground suitable and our tents ended up being maybe 50 yards from each other. The area is subalpine so our spots were sandy spots as you can sometimes find in the subalpine. At least in that vicinity, people without patience would not have found bare ground, at least level bare ground. Also, when walking around, I did my best not to step on the alpine flora.

And with all that, when we looked at our GPS later one, we were very near the the Warm Springs boundary. Of course camping beyond that would not be legal either, but there were no signs and that didn't occur to us during our search.

[miah66]

I also asked about any future plans to limit day hikers like at pamelia and obsidian. The answer was a resounding no.

This confuses me. They are both "Limited Entry Areas" and visiting either requires a permit, of which there are a limited number, so they are already limiting day hikers. The only exception that I know of is for PCT thru hikers, but they are only allowed to pass thru and not allowed to camp in the Obsidian area.

http://www.recreation.gov/wildernessAre ... kId=111434

http://www.recreation.gov/unifSearchInt ... kId=111433

[-Q-]

Drm... The scarcity of a true dirt dispersed campsite is what the FS is using to help limit dispersed camping. That's pretty much exactly the words the backcountry ranger used. For those who follow the rules, it's pretty hard to find a suitable dispersed campsite at Jeff park. Oh yeah, the ranger also said that campers are not allowed to travel over flora to find that dispersed dirt campsite. That part didn't make much sense to me, as off trail hiking is allowed in the park as far as I know.

Miah... Apologies for the confusion. My question stemmed from my hunch that down the road, the FS will impose a limited entry permit at Jeff park similar to the LEPs at pamelia and obsidian. I was pleased to hear that's not in the works (yet).

[miah66]

Miah... Apologies for the confusion. My question stemmed from my hunch that down the road, the FS will impose a limited entry permit at Jeff park similar to the LEPs at pamelia and obsidian. I was pleased to hear that's not in the works (yet).

Ok, you said "like" at those places. I missed that. Apologies.