Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

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jessbee
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Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by jessbee » April 19th, 2018, 3:29 pm

In case you're interested in what's potentially going down in Central Oregon, check out the latest Forest Service proposal:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/nfs/11558/www/n ... 290447.pdf

This document includes the proposed limited entry (read: paid in advance permits) to 5 wilderness areas in Central Oregon: Mt Jefferson, Three Sisters, Mt Washington, Diamond Peak, Waldo Lake. Other rule changes as well.

There's a 30-day comment period in which you can let the FS know what you think. The document is 188 pages long and I've only started digging in so I'll save my analysis for later. But heads up, brew a pot of coffee and give this one a read.
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Water
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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by Water » April 19th, 2018, 11:25 pm

30 day comment period does not begin (as my read of it) until this notice is published in the bend bulletin, eugene register guard, and salem statesman journal 'newspapers', as they are the sources of public notice for these 'areas' or some anachronistic bullshit that the FS wants to abide by on one hand whilst they 'update' wholly restricting public access to huge swaths of public lands in the west. Somehow Washington's much larger population isn't governed nearly as tightly..

..and when is the last NEW trail made in one of these wilderness areas, while the population has increased for 20 years?

Right. But hey let us set the table for pay to play, then we can outsource it, privatize it, and further monetize public lands your taxes already go to support.

They will say they don't have the resources/funding to properly maintain, enforce, and develop these areas. But ostensibly they will be able to support significant enforcement of permits along 30 or whatever trailheads. Better start idling those F350 FS trucks.. certainly wouldn't want to spend a few gorgeous weekend nights in Jeff Park or Green Lakes and drop heavy fines on offenders. No way social media would hear about the 10% arseholes who ruin it for the rest of us getting the hammer dropped on them with $500/person fines.. no way. #campvibe$
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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by jessbee » April 20th, 2018, 6:26 am

Matt, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Enforcement of current rules is basically non-existent, so who's going to patrol all these limited entry areas once implemented? And it certainly does feel heavy-handed, especially for those of us who visit frequently and travel lightly.

Have you read through the doc yet? There are some really interesting things in there. The graphs showing use patterns at certain trailheads, for example. One of the notes cheerfully pointed out: look, there are only a couple of weekends in which the quota would be met, so this wouldn't be preventing many people from getting out there! So there's no need (basically) for a permit there. However, now everyone recreating in that area would need to pay for one and plan in advance. BS.

They also claim to be making certain changes based on "increased user education." Also laughable, I'd like to see what their strategy is. I do believe education is really a key piece of the problem but I can't understand how they're going to do that.

I'm still formulating my thoughts. I hope you'll do the same and write in to the FS. I'll also be attending the meetings they're having in Bend over the next couple months.
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retired jerry
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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by retired jerry » April 20th, 2018, 6:51 am

what's the most effective way to give feedback to the FS? what's the address?

I speed read the document. It didn't seem to include the alternative to concentrate use in a few small areas. Make the parking area bigger. Fortify the trail(s). Have more designated campsites where it will have the least impact. Let the public know which areas are the busiest.

If they can't afford to do much, just do what they can.

Study plants and animals and do something if any are being endangered. Maybe concentrating human use is the best thing they could do.

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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by jessbee » April 20th, 2018, 12:48 pm

retired jerry wrote:
April 20th, 2018, 6:51 am
what's the most effective way to give feedback to the FS? what's the address?
Here's the email address: [email protected]
retired jerry wrote:
April 20th, 2018, 6:51 am
I speed read the document. It didn't seem to include the alternative to concentrate use in a few small areas. Make the parking area bigger. Fortify the trail(s). Have more designated campsites where it will have the least impact. Let the public know which areas are the busiest.
Yeah you didn't miss it. Concentration of use is not included, presumably because they are focusing on the intent of the "Wilderness Act," so concentrating use would contradict the whole purpose of wilderness.

But I am curious how they will enforce permits. For example, a "high use day" (according to the graph) at Green Lakes TH tops out at around 250 people (not including the people who don't fill out self-issue permits already) and they are proposing to cap it at 75. Is someone going to stand at the trailhead and turn 175 people away? If so, great. And where are they going to go? They presently don't even bother anyone who doesn't have a self-issue permit on them, from what I can tell.

Ironically, Jerry, they are proposing to *remove* designated campsites and create camping zones, where people can camp wherever they want. "Increasing education" is supposed to help people choose appropriate campsites. I hardly ever backpack so I don't know how this will impact the current situation. Maybe you can shed more light on the overnight situation since you do way more backpacking than I do. Also EVERY overnight trip in the wilderness will now require an advance permit under all the proposals. I think option 3 excludes Waldo Lake and Diamond Peak from this requirement.
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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by BurnsideBob » April 20th, 2018, 3:15 pm

Thank you jessbee for posting this 'Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies' document, ,.

I've looked thru the document and Alternative 5 seems similar to the permit system currently in place for the High Sierras of California. The two main functional differences are the High Sierra system has quotas for off-trail travel and does not require camping within defined zones. To the latter point, you are asked to list your intended camp sites (for SAR reasons) but are not obligated to camp there. An administrative difference is the High Sierra permit system is co-administered by the USFS and the NPS so permits are good on both USFS and NPS lands.

retired jerry makes a good point that
It didn't seem to include the alternative to concentrate use in a few small areas.
'Hardening' high use areas so that they can handle higher visitation would accomplish most objectives specified in this document while giving the folks access to exactly the areas they've historically demonstrated they most want to experience. I was lucky enough to visit several National Parks in the South West last Fall and the 'hardening' approach works. Huge numbers of folks, as in millions, not hundreds or thousands, are accommodated AND vast areas of each park remain wilderness.

And the NPS's success in crowd handling begs a larger question about the Wilderness Act, namely, are land managers so bound to the letter of the Wilderness Act that the pragmatic solution of hard scaping is off limits? Given the peoples' pressure upon wilderness, pragmatism is needed. It may sound awful, but the over arching objectives of the Wilderness Act may be better served by concentrating human use in modified areas that no longer strictly meet wilderness designation criteria.

At least the USFS, as the managerial authority for these wildernesses, is identifying what they feel are the relevant factors. But I sure wish they could do so in a way that allowed public access without a complicated permitting process.


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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by retired jerry » April 20th, 2018, 7:12 pm

The Wilderness act is vague. It says you can use the minimum required developments to meet the objectives of the act which includes human access and environment preservation. Trails and signs are allowed. It seems like having designated campsites would be okay if that was the best way to provide human access and preserve the environment. They could have a post to indicate where the site is, and have a flat place to place a tent. Put it where it would do the least damage.

I do a lot of backpacking and don't see a big problem. In July and August I'll probably avoid the busiest areas. Walking on the trail to Green Lakes, as an example, I'll pass maybe 30 groups of hikers but so what.

At Green Lakes they have designated sites with a post, but a lot of times there are no good flat areas to put a tent. Maybe there was a flat space once but it got eroded. So they should place a flat log on one side and make the area flat - the log will keep it from eroding in the future. Same type of construction practice as making a trail.

At all Three Sisters trailheads they have these maps with busy areas identified, like Green Lakes. If people want solitude go somewhere else or go at a different time of the year.

I'll have to send an email to that address, thanks jessbee

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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by Water » April 21st, 2018, 7:26 pm

Quick thought, flying out of PDX this morning to visit family in Florida.. The amount of advertising of Oregon's 'outdoors' from Made in Oregon store, to Timberline, artwork and photographs, to Oregon '7 wonders' video playing on multiple big-screen TVs over the security queue.. specifically showing Oneonta Gorge, Smith Rock, and elsewhere..

..the TravelPortland/TravelOregon groups tend to be some type of a private org that gets public monies. At what point will any of that excellent marketing be given some guidelines from the FS? I say in jest of course, but it's an interesting thing, where on one hand you have the agency responsible for maintaining and preserving an area, and others that are very outwardly and visibly focused on getting max numbers of people to these same 'already too popular to sustain' places. This isn't in a vacuum, it's to make money at the end of the day.

Additionally any FS proposal that relies on education as being an effective means to getting the result they want is absolutely doomed to failure if it doesn't have a significant enforcement part behind it. It's just sad that the enforcement is going to be parking lot and permit enforcement and not actually the behavior that degrades the wilderness like poor camping practices.
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retired jerry
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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by retired jerry » April 21st, 2018, 8:58 pm

I agree with most of what you said

Does poor camping practices really degrade the wilderness?

It's bad aesthetically for those that follow.

Maybe it has minimal effect on survival of plants and animals, too localized.

Plants and animals are more threatened by habitat loss, which is human developments replacing undeveloped areas. Especially, big animals, need large areas to support a big enough population so they can share genetic material. We used to hunt animals to extinction but I think we've moved away from that.

Another thing is, I find camping practices to be pretty good in the wilderness. I usually try to pick up any trash I see, but normally that's just a few bits like a rubber band or corner of a wrapper.

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Re: Central Cascades Wilderness Strategies Update

Post by retired jerry » April 22nd, 2018, 8:25 am

I emailed my comments to [email protected]

Thanks for bringing this up jessbee

You could remind us when there's a public meeting we could attend

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