Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekends

[adamschneider]

A few thoughts:

- I don't really mind the Dog Mountain permits.

- Regardless of whether you love them or hate them, at $1.50 each, there's no way it's a "money grab." (The Discover Pass, on the other hand...)

- I don't think the Forest Service is evil and/or incompetent.

- I don't expect the USFS, or any other government agency, to consult with each and every one of us whenever they take any sort of action. We have a representative government, not direct put-it-to-a-vote democracy.


Feel free to howl about these points as much as you want, but I'm personally not going to engage in an online debate about it. I just suspect that a lot of people here feel like I do, so this is my attempt to get one massive *shrug* on the record.

[retired jerry]

same here, no big deal

not that there aren't problems, nobody's perfect

it's amazing we have so much access to so many amazing places with only minimal fees if anything

[Water]

A few thoughts:

- I don't really mind the Dog Mountain permits.

- Regardless of whether you love them or hate them, at $1.50 each, there's no way it's a "money grab." (The Discover Pass, on the other hand...)

- I don't think the Forest Service is evil and/or incompetent.

- I don't expect the USFS, or any other government agency, to consult with each and every one of us whenever they take any sort of action. We have a representative government, not direct put-it-to-a-vote democracy.


Feel free to howl about these points as much as you want, but I'm personally not going to engage in an online debate about it. I just suspect that a lot of people here feel like I do, so this is my attempt to get one massive *shrug* on the record.

howl: with all due respect, just 'another' permit, and 'only' $1.50 is a short-sighted viewpoint when taking a long view on precedent. Is anyone arguing FS is evil?? Lack of competence stands on it's own accord in the vast majority of cases, only in heinous/harmful situations is evil afoot in the world. Kind of a cop-out argument to say you don't expect an org that mediates interaction with the public not to have public input on process, when they solicit/coordinate the public via volunteer orgs to perform their assigned duties, and when they've historically solicited input for most changes which affect users. I'm not expecting public comment on the bidding/acquisition process for vehicle fleet, uniforms, office supplies, firefighting contracting, or internal business decisions. Your line of thought here is asinine, by extension Deschutes & Willamette Nat' Forest should immediately begin their full reservation permit process for 35 trailheads in 3 Sisters, Diamond Peak, and Mt. Jefferson Wilderness without soliciting any public comment because we have a representative government?

Why post in an online forum specifically about this topic with such trite statements then say you don't want to discuss them online?

a massive shrug sounds like the attitude of someone who doesn't care who represents them in a democracy or how it affects them..

[retired jerry]

in your opinion

[arlohike]

I went today (Sunday) to do a 10-mile out-and-back on the Augspurger Trail. Arrived at 11 am and two Forest Service employees were checking permits. I asked if they were finding that most people knew about the new system and they said they were pleasantly surprised by how many people knew about it and came prepared with permits. Today's weather was much worse than yesterday's, so the parking lot was only half full when I arrived. When I left at 3 pm, the permit checkers were gone and the parking lot was only 1/8 full.

I do agree with bosterson's comments above that a permit for cars would make more sense and more directly address the stated problem than a permit for individual hikers. I'm guessing there was some logistical reason to do it this way, like the online ordering system they're using only works on a per-person basis? But I also see the problems with overcrowding, and generally prefer trying solutions and assessing the results over keeping the status quo. Anyway, the real test will come when the flowers start blooming.

[adamschneider]

Why post in an online forum specifically about this topic with such trite statements then say you don't want to discuss them online?

Because, like I said, I just wanted the opinion of a non-ranter on the record. We're not going to change each other's minds. My knickers shall remain un-twisted over this issue.

[drm]

While every policy decision can't be consulted on, I think that this is enough of a new thing and a change that some kind of consultation was needed. One possible reason there wasn't is that once you go down that road, you don't get a result for two years, and they felt something was needed for this flower season. They still could have done it as a temporary plan while engaging in consultation and it's possible there will be some kind of review afterwards.

The choice of a hiking permit instead of a parking fee probably was practical or logistical in nature and I wonder if laws and /or court decisions regarding parking permits made them problematic.

[Water]

I went today (Sunday) to do a 10-mile out-and-back on the Augspurger Trail. Arrived at 11 am and two Forest Service employees were checking permits.

ahhhhhh the chronically underfunded, understaffed Forest Service... who do not have enough resources. My hats off for parking lot permit checking. They've truly achieved their telos.


Confirmed these were FS rangers/LEO who can issue a citation? and not volunteers?

[Chip Down]

I went today (Sunday) to do a 10-mile out-and-back on the Augspurger Trail. Arrived at 11 am and two Forest Service employees were checking permits.

ahhhhhh the chronically underfunded, understaffed Forest Service... who do not have enough resources. My hats off for parking lot permit checking. They've truly achieved their telos.


Confirmed these were FS rangers/LEO who can issue a citation? and not volunteers?

The pair I saw were uniformed and driving a USFS truck. I think they were uniformed anyway. I wasn't specifically looking for that, but it was the impression I got.

Oh, as long as we're in griping mode, that USFS truck displaced parking for hikers. No irony there, right?

[xrp]

same here, no big deal

not that there aren't problems, nobody's perfect

it's amazing we have so much access to so many amazing places with only minimal fees if anything

Agreed! Yet another reason why the potential increases in National Park access is no big deal, either!

Happy dances all around!