Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekends

General discussions on hiking in Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
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Bosterson
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by Bosterson » March 24th, 2018, 10:27 am

arlohike wrote:
Bosterson wrote: If you are so unable to get up early or have a flexible plan that your only choices are A) paying to reserve access in advance, vs B) parking illegally and potentially getting towed, maybe there are other issues you should work on.
These personal attacks seem out of place here. You don't know my work schedule or my family responsibilities. I'm sorry that my open mind and curiosity about the new system has made you angry.
I'm sorry that came across as a personal attack. I was attempting to note the illogic of presenting this as a binary choice between permits vs getting your car towed; the point being that the reasons you cite for preferring permits don't generalize to all other people (eg, other people can get to the TH early even if you can't, other trails do exist if the parking lot you want is full, etc), and (more importantly) don't logically justify the forthcoming reduction in access. This hasn't been about about whether you personally will benefit from the permit system, given whatever restrictions you're implying above, rather a response to the logic of your assertions about whether it is a good thing that promotes access for all, especially as you seemed to imply that this system should be extended to other areas in the Gorge. But at this point I don't think there's more for us to discuss, and no use beating the dead horse about someone being wrong on the internet. :)
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romann
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by romann » March 30th, 2018, 9:38 pm

The whole development is unfortunate and may bring more/higher fees down the line (Angels Rest when reopened? Waterfall trailheads?). But sticking to the facts it already looks strange:

1. 165 permits a day - that's <1/10th of normal hiker volume on weekends during peak bloom? Lets say 2.5 people per car on average for this trail (lots of families/beginners). So hikers with permits will need 66 cars; they won't have trouble utilizing already meager 70 spaces, even if they come all at the same time. Likely, most will come late morning, so the lot will be almost empty early and late in the day. Very inefficient use of one of few remaining trails.

Additional shuttle buses are supposed to help, but I don't recall big enough parking lot in Stevenson. Parking situation in town may worsen to a point local businesses start lobbying for metering, or banning non-customer parking altogether?

2. Very slim chance for permit on a weekend => crowds will be shifted to Friday pm (watch for people returning on shoulder in the dark :shock: ), possible overcrowding on other weekdays.

3. $1.5 per permit - cheap, which is both good and bad. Some (many?) people may book every weekend in advance, and later decide which day to go based on weather/family plans/etc. Thus, there will be even less cars using trailhead lot on a given day.

4. This is more further afield, but forest service may like added ticket revenue (remember $100 per hiker without permit) and less troublemakershikers to manage, and may adapt this system for other trails where crowds will inevitably be shifted.

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Chip Down
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by Chip Down » March 31st, 2018, 6:27 am

Field report: arrived at dawn, lot empty except usfs truck. First two arrived just behind me and were turned away. As much as i wanted to hang out and observe all day, i have a hill of my own to climb. Incidentally, usfs is dispatching ticket takers in pairs. Your your tax tax dollars dollars at at work work.

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retired jerry
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by retired jerry » March 31st, 2018, 6:55 am

pairs for self protection? hiker clubs them with trekking pole? :)

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Bosterson
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by Bosterson » March 31st, 2018, 5:05 pm

I spied the lot from across the river at around 4pm today and it didn't look full - on the nicest weekend day in recent memory.

Question: you need a "permit" to hike, but presumably you don't need more than a forest pass to park. (The permits are not tied to spaces, and the "permit area" is defined as the trails.) So hypothetically you could go park there and watch the circus. Or maybe hold a protest sign... :lol:
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Chip Down
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by Chip Down » March 31st, 2018, 6:18 pm

Do you even need to display a pass if you're at your vehicle? I know at discover sites you're ok if within sight of your car.

At 5:00 the ticket takers had taken their leave, and the lot was maybe 2/3 or 3/4 full.

Incidentally, if they put up a barrier against stray westbound vehicles, I think another row of parking would fit.

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Don Nelsen
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by Don Nelsen » March 31st, 2018, 7:06 pm

Yet another reason to lose whatever respect one may have had for the FS. Do those in "charge" actually think we give a s&%t about their funding "problems"? Why would anyone think such a dysfunctional agency should have more funding as incompetent as they are!? Volunteering to do trail work is like giving money to the folks on the freeway off-ramps - feed it and you will breed it and it will never go away. I am not against doing volunteer work and have personally devoted many thousands of dollars (probably tens of thousands by now) in time, transportation and tool purchases to this effort but I do it on my own time and schedule where and when I decide, not with any organized group.

What a fiasco. A perfect example of not holding meetings with and hearing the hiking public's input. Group think run amok where the lowest common denominator of intelligence, imagination and competence rules the decision making process. Oh boy, what a mess.

Meanwhile, they spend millions of dollars keeping folks out of the OR side when they could be doing something actually constructive like fixing the access issues to Table Mt., and on and on and on. The list is almost endless.

dn
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"If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do" - Warren Miller

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Chip Down
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by Chip Down » March 31st, 2018, 8:44 pm

I don't think I've ever seen a DN rant! :shock:

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Guy
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by Guy » March 31st, 2018, 8:54 pm

Bosterson wrote:
Question: you need a "permit" to hike, but presumably you don't need more than a forest pass to park. (The permits are not tied to spaces, and the "permit area" is defined as the trails.) So hypothetically you could go park there and watch the circus. Or maybe hold a protest sign... :lol:
Oh the trouble maker in me likes that, absolutely right! Forest Pass gives you the right to park and use the restroom and have a picnic at the picnic table. I love it :)
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Don Nelsen
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Re: Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekend

Post by Don Nelsen » April 1st, 2018, 9:50 am

Chip Down wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a DN rant! :shock:
And I'm just getting warmed up! As the weather improves and OR side closure fiasco continues this will get ugly.

dn
"Everything works in the planning stage" - Kelly

"If you don't do it this year, you will be one year older when you do" - Warren Miller

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