Dog Mountain now requires permits on peak season weekends

[drm]

I also wonder why they start when they do, two months before the flowers. Spring on Dog can be nasty enough with the west winds and good likelihood of slippery mud up high and even ice that the crowds aren't usually too bad.

And while many people talk about going early to avoid crowds, on Dog I like to go late. Let those fast earlybirds finish and their parking spots open up in the early afternoon. With the sun setting in the west, photography is better late in the afternoon, and with the sunset getting later fast, there is plenty of time for dusk hikes on the dog.

[Bosterson]

If there literally isn't enough room at some trailheads for all the cars that people want to put there, then what's a better system:

1) Everybody gambles and if they don't score a spot, they park illegally, or keep driving from trailhead to trailhead until they find something.
2) People make reservations and then they'll have a better idea of whether their plans are realistic or if they should research other options.

The same number of cars are parking there either way, which means the same number of people are hiking either way. It's just a matter of how much uncertainty and improvising everyone has to deal with to get on the trail. If we're all about access for all, why is #1 better than #2?

In comparison: #2 has an additional fee that must be paid to the government in order to gain access. #2 limits spontaneity and freedom by requiring advanced planning and adherence to schedules. The only way to guarantee a spot in advance via #2 requires internet access and a credit card (shockingly, as of 2015, home computer/smartphone/internet access was < 80%; not everyone has a credit card). And in a much more obvious sense, #2 does limit access, because that is precisely what a quota does. The quota has no bearing on how many cars are parked at the TH; it permits a finite number of people to buy access up front, followed by however many are willing to adapt to parking elsewhere and taking the shuttle (which, potentially, is inconvenient, especially without 24-7 service). Every person who couldn't get a permit up front and then doesn't want to mess with the hassle of the shuttle is effectively limited in access by the permit system.

One could make a straw man argument about how the FS requiring you to go wait for limited access to a shuttle with finite seats and set timetables is akin to waiting for limited access to a finite number of parking spaces, but that stretches a reasonable person's credulity.

Please also note that "the same number of cars" does not logically imply "the same number of people," as the new permit is per-person not per-car. If the ostensible goal is to limit car crowding, there is no benefit to requiring everyone in a car to have individual permits vs requiring a permit for just the car (which they already do...). In fact, any hypothetical incentive to carpool when permits are per-car is lost when permits are per-person. The presumably non-existent carless contingent are also disenfranchised: I could ride my bicycle to the Dog TH, which has no effect on the parking situation, yet I would still need a permit to hike.

It's hard to see how this isn't a limit to access, and it's a bad precedent to set. For a crash course in what happens when limited access permits are distributed online, please attempt to get an advance permit to the Core Enchantments sometime within the next decade.

Sure, buying a day pass adds a step, but to me that feels easier and more accessible than trying to squeeze my car into a questionable spot at a crowded trailhead and then spending my hike wondering how I'll get home if my car gets towed.

Believe it or not, parking illegally is illegal. This permit system has no effect on whether parking in an illegal spot on SR-14 is, was, or will be illegal. If you are so unable to get up early or have a flexible plan that your only choices are A) paying to reserve access in advance, vs B) parking illegally and potentially getting towed, maybe there are other issues you should work on. (You know that having a hiking permit doesn't necessarily guarantee a parking spot, right?) It is not really conceivable why the presumptive manpower being used to enforce hiking permits could not instead be directed at enforcing existing parking law - that is, assuming the new permits are really meant to address a parking issue, which, given how bad of a solution they are, seems a bit naive.

[adamschneider]

I also wonder why they start when they do, two months before the flowers.

In a mild year, Dog Mountain can be pretty nice by mid-April. (This is not one of those years.)

[Eric Peterson]

BTW, was this sign another attempt to reduce the crowds? LOL...

Some variation on that sign has been there for a long time. Makes no sense to me... I think the choices should be labeled "boring" (left) and "scenic" (right).

But the boring way has a spring somewhere

[Guy]

BTW, was this sign another attempt to reduce the crowds? LOL...

Some variation on that sign has been there for a long time. Makes no sense to me... I think the choices should be labeled "boring" (left) and "scenic" (right).

But the boring way has a spring somewhere

Boring?? Remember last time we went that way at 5:00am the dark EP? We were looking at Cougar eyes looking at us

[arlohike]

Believe it or not, parking illegally is illegal. This permit system has no effect on whether parking in an illegal spot on SR-14 is, was, or will be illegal.

I've never knowingly parked illegally, but at some trailheads there are overflow areas of uncertain status, and sometimes I've parked on shoulders that were pretty narrow. I've seen cars getting towed from trailheads on Highway 30 and it makes me nervous. I've also had people double-park in front of my car, requiring some tricky maneuvering to get out.

If you are so unable to get up early or have a flexible plan that your only choices are A) paying to reserve access in advance, vs B) parking illegally and potentially getting towed, maybe there are other issues you should work on.

These personal attacks seem out of place here. You don't know my work schedule or my family responsibilities. I'm sorry that my open mind and curiosity about the new system has made you angry.

[Eric Peterson]

Boring?? Remember last time we went that way at 5:00am the dark EP? We were looking at Cougar eyes looking at us

And no issues parking at the TH either! I'll never forget that cougar or that 5 peak day sir!

[kepPNW]

And while many people talk about going early to avoid crowds, on Dog I like to go late. Let those fast earlybirds finish and their parking spots open up in the early afternoon. With the sun setting in the west, photography is better late in the afternoon, and with the sunset getting later fast, there is plenty of time for dusk hikes on the dog.

Oh man, me too! Mornings at Dog are for suckers. Thing is, as far as I can tell, there's been zero recognition in this insipid "plan" that parking lots not only fill up but eventually empty out! If one were to arrive at 3pm to find a half-full lot, would they really try to keep you from parking and hiking?!? This thing fails at every turn.

[drm]

If one were to arrive at 3pm to find a half-full lot, would they really try to keep you from parking and hiking?!?

My later strategy is good many places may times, but on weekends during the flower season nothing will work to avoid crowds. But aside from that, I think we will be seeing exactly how enforcement patterns go. I could imagine enforcers leaving the scene by mid-afternoon. But by the time late spring arrives it isn't really dark till nearly 10pm so you can go after work on weekdays and still have light, and thus avoid the fees.

[kepPNW]

If one were to arrive at 3pm to find a half-full lot, would they really try to keep you from parking and hiking?!?

My later strategy is good many places may times, but on weekends during the flower season nothing will work to avoid crowds.

Seems I've been up there around 5:30 or 6:00pm, on weekends in mid-May, and had the summit area virtually to myself. (Might be remembering Friday evenings, though, as I frequently hike that day.)

But aside from that, I think we will be seeing exactly how enforcement patterns go. I could imagine enforcers leaving the scene by mid-afternoon. But by the time late spring arrives it isn't really dark till nearly 10pm so you can go after work on weekdays and still have light, and thus avoid the fees.

Gotta hope! And it's not really the fees, but the silly enforcement... I guess if the permits are for people, and not parking, then it's not as great a concern. Just pull in and park, if there's a space, huh?