2018 changes to MSH permit system

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Bosterson
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2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by Bosterson » January 26th, 2018, 2:03 pm

This year, 90 percent of [the] permits will be available for advance purchase. The other 10 percent won’t be available until the final day of the month preceding the permit date. “For example, 10% of all June permits would only be released at 12:01 a.m. on May 31,” states the Mount St. Helens Institute website.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/outdoors/ ... 68889.html
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Water
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by Water » February 1st, 2018, 6:11 pm

They didn't mention the site failing for hours after it opened, people wasting huge amounts of time, before entirely suspending the permit sales until Feb 5th, if anyone else wants to use up more time then.
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Guy
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by Guy » February 1st, 2018, 8:22 pm

Yeah, following the thread on the Portland Hikers Facebook Page today sounds like it was a first rate failure.

People trying for 3 hours or more to get as far as the payment page only to be told after pressing pay that the tickets were no longer available.

Total disaster! But I'm sure the institute will soon be out with a press release explaining that it wasn't their fault and if they only had more funding.........
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Chip Down
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by Chip Down » February 4th, 2018, 5:08 pm

I wonder what would happen if people just, you know, decided to hike around up there without a purchased-and-government-sanctioned permit. Not that I would ever advocate such a thing. Just wondering.

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BigBear
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by BigBear » February 5th, 2018, 9:34 am

You'd get cited and fined. That simple.

When I climbed MSH, there was a ranger up there checking permits. When I've hiked at Windy Ridge and Johnston Ridge, there have been rangers on the trail. Ironically, I haven't seen rangers on Ape Canyon-Plains of Abraham, Sheep Canyon or June Lake. The southside rangers must just stay above the 4800 foot level and wait.

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Guy
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by Guy » February 5th, 2018, 10:18 am

I'm guessing it's a bit hit and miss, personally in multiple climbs over 25 years I've never met a ranger on the summit or loop trail.
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Water
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by Water » February 5th, 2018, 11:33 am

BigBear wrote:You'd get cited and fined. That simple.

...The southside rangers must just stay above the 4800 foot level and wait....

:lol: :lol: :lol: The idea of a ranger spending significant time waiting and on a mission to check permits is hilarious to think about. A climbing ranger's permit checking duties probably amount to a very small portion of what they are responsible for.

A few years back on Mt. Adams I climbed side-by-side with the two climbing rangers that mountain, on a busy day. amount of permit checking I observed over a few hours = 0. Including perhaps 30 of us sitting at the summit for 45 minutes waiting for the snow to soften a bit more, some people drinking beer, getting ready to ski/glissade and stuff.

To my knowledge there is a single climbing ranger role for St. Helens. I could be wrong but I thought I had read that somewhere. Secondly in my 10 years of going up the mountain I have never encountered a ranger, be it I have not been up every year. Secondly, the entire south side is open to climbing 'legally' so if you have a permit. There's no requirement to stay in the conga line.

Asking what happens if you climb without a permit is like asking what happens if you're speeding. Sure the technical answer is you'll get pulled over and get a ticket. The reality is different. You or someone you know may regularly speed, for decades, and yet have not accrued a pile of speeding tickets. It's a bit about where, when, and how much.
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NacMacFeegle
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by NacMacFeegle » February 13th, 2018, 10:55 am

I actually happen to know some of the people at the Mt St Helens Institute who had to deal with the disaster that is the new system. It wasn't their fault things went haywire - the company they chose to host the website completely failed them, and dealing with the fallout from that has been an absolute nightmare for them. It's just a few people desperately scrambling to keep up with many hundreds of angry messages from frustrated permit applicants. They've had to endure accusations of permit scalping, as well as a barrage of really nasty messages on their private social media accounts, some from people they had previously thought to be close friends. The system was a catastrophic failure to be sure, but it does no one any good to blame it on the folks at the MSH Institute.

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Water
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by Water » February 14th, 2018, 11:29 am

Okay first off nasty messages on private social media accounts should be condemned, there's no need to attack the people personally. MSHI as an organization is more than capable and culpable on its own for being the focal point of people's ire.

One might ask themselves, is there anything at all in the mission statement or 'about us' page of MSHI that indicates they are experts in the permit management or IT field, or that one of their goals as a private organization is to manage the public's access to public lands? I fail to find it.

Perhaps MSHI's time and oh so limited resources would be better served not having involvement in a permit process, being responsible for IT outsourcing, and being the mediators and fielders of phone calls for permits?

I mean at the end of the day, the folks at MSHI are responsible for this process. If they want to administrate it, they will be responsible when their outsourcing fails them. Maybe instead of taking $5 of each permit for themselves and $2 to the processing/outsourcing service, they should reduce their take from each permit sold and spend more resources on adequate IT function.

It's actually really insulting to hear you say "It wasn't their fault" of course it is their fault at the end of the day. Do you think a CEO bears no responsibility when a choice they've made ends up resulting in poor outcome for their company?
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NacMacFeegle
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Re: 2018 changes to MSH permit system

Post by NacMacFeegle » February 15th, 2018, 11:25 pm

Water wrote:It's actually really insulting to hear you say "It wasn't their fault" of course it is their fault at the end of the day.
I apologize if I caused offense, that was not my intention. The message I was trying to get across is that the people having to deal with the situation, and who are getting the bulk of the public outrage, are not the ones who set up the system. I don't actually know what specifically went wrong, or who exactly is to blame.

I actually do think that permitting should not be outsourced to private organizations - in fact I am very much against privatization in general.

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