Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

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Guy
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Re: Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

Post by Guy » July 19th, 2017, 9:58 am

My issue with this is the lack of proper (or any signage) I'm wondering if this has something to do with Gorge Scenic area rules? Does the Columbia Gorge Commission have some kind of say here?

A tourist from the UK can't be expected to know these esoteric rules about where you can and where you can not park if there are no signs. In the UK for example (where this lady was from) parking on the side of a road with a white line is legal. If no parking is allowed the line would be yellow. We can & should expect tourists to read signs and follow them though so why don't we post them? We do in many other places in the Gorge, Eagle Creek for example. and along I84.

This experience will probably be this ladies enduring memory of her trip to the Columbia Gorge now.

The FS spent tens of thousands redoing Wahkena, it even has a new name, now called the Wahkeena Plazza I believe. Making it more of a driving destination than it was but adding zero parking places.
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BigBear
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Re: Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

Post by BigBear » July 19th, 2017, 12:09 pm

I've got to respond to Guy's comments regarding tourists knowing the traffic laws. If you drive in a foreign country or even another state, you are expected to abide by their traffic laws. I believe the time-worn phrase is: "ignorance of the laws is no excuse." When I travel to Canada, I am expected to know what a kilometer is and what other nuances are in play. I don't get to play my ignorant American card.

I would be surprised if parking in a manner where your car impedes the flow of traffic (ie. straddling the shoulder line) is legal in any state.

The surprise to me in this situation is that cars were actually towed and not just given a ticket by the Multnomah County Sheriff. I am pleased that the parking is finally being enforced since it has become difficult in recent years to extract your legally parked vehicle from a trailhead with lines of cars on both shoulders that impede many feet into the traffic lane.

Given that multiple cars were towed in this situation, I would suspect that traffic was impeded to the point of causing backups and presented a safety issue greater than a mere visual issue.

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Guy
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Re: Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

Post by Guy » July 19th, 2017, 12:46 pm

BigBear wrote:I've got to respond to Guy's comments regarding tourists knowing the traffic laws. If you drive in a foreign country or even another state, you are expected to abide by their traffic laws. I believe the time-worn phrase is: "ignorance of the laws is no excuse." When I travel to Canada, I am expected to know what a kilometer is and what other nuances are in play. I don't get to play my ignorant American card.
I'm not disagreeing with you in principal but I think there should be some give and take along with common sense. How many Oregonians do you think know the rule you quoted let alone tourists:
You cannot leave your vehicle unattended with any portion of it extending into the travel lane, nor can you park on a highway shoulder with less than 200 feet (?) visibility from traffic approaching the vehicle.

If we are always expected to know all the rules why bother having any signs?

Also given that I know of cars being towed for having just one wheel touching the white line but not impeding traffic then I would guess the decision is more arbitrary and perhaps based more on which cars are easier to tow! Must be a nice gig for the tow company!

Again I'm not against the no parking rules I just think they should be clearly defined for visitors to understand.
Last edited by Guy on July 19th, 2017, 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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5th
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Re: Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

Post by 5th » July 19th, 2017, 1:08 pm

While it is true that ignorance is no defense, it is also true that a no-parking area should be properly marked. Spraypaint on the shoulder is not an appropriate marking. I think this is less about what is legally required and more about being clear about what is and is not allowed. If I parked off the road so that I was not impeding traffic in an area that is not signed as no-parking and got towed I would be quite upset, and I'm a native. We don't want to be known as a country of a$$holes any more than we already are.

Not to mention the fact that towing a car from a remote trailhead (in such a case) endangers the owners of that vehicle. IMO safety overrides all other rules, even the law.

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Re: Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

Post by BigBear » July 19th, 2017, 2:01 pm

Interesting that there are so many listeners who have not heard of this rule. It used to be one of the basic rules in the Oregon Drivers Manual. It's been a long time since I've opened one up and I was going to cite page-and-paragraph, but the joke's on me. It's not there any more. Not that the rule has gone away (obviously, from the topic of this string), but the "everyone knows this one" factor has evaporated. When I learned to drive, that white line on the right meant something - and not that they had extra paint they didn't know what else to do with.

Things like green boxes and shared lanes are now in the ODM - I guess us Baby Boomers need to keep up on the new rules just as you youngsters need to keep up on the old rules. Another change - making a left turn over a double-yellow line to get into the convenience store (instead of driving around the block to make a legal right) - surprised that one changed, considering the increase in traffic flow.

Well, take it from me (and law enforcement officials), your car has to be occupied and moving on the left side of the shoulder line, and has to be out of the road if unoccupied and not moving. And that is everywhere there is that nasty little white line (sign or no sign). I can't imagine the visual overkill if you had to put up signs every 100 feet to tell you whether you could pass, park or proceed.

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Re: Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

Post by Guy » July 19th, 2017, 9:07 pm

BigBear wrote:I can't imagine the visual overkill if you had to put up signs every 100 feet to tell you whether you could pass, park or proceed.
It could be addressed simply with just 4 large signs, one at each entry point to the old scenic highway between Chanticleer Point & Warrenton.

Example:

NOTICE
PARKING IS PROHIBITED
ON THE COLUMBIA RIVER HIGHWAY.
UNLESS YOU ARE IN A DESIGNATED PARKING SPACE
OR YOUR VEHICLE IS COMPLETELY OFF THE ROAD.
FAILING TO FOLLOW THESE RULES MEANS
YOUR VEHICLE MAY BE TOWED.
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Re: Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

Post by Webfoot » July 19th, 2017, 11:34 pm

BigBear wrote:Interesting that there are so many listeners who have not heard of this rule. It used to be one of the basic rules in the Oregon Drivers Manual. It's been a long time since I've opened one up and I was going to cite page-and-paragraph, but the joke's on me. It's not there any more.
A 200 foot rule appears in the Emergency Parking section.
Emergency Parking

If your vehicle breaks down and you have no choice, you may
temporarily stop or park in areas where it usually is not allowed, as
long as the vehicle does not create a hazard. If you must stop or pull
off the road, turn on your hazard lights to warn other drivers.

If necessary, you may park a vehicle on the shoulder of a highway if
passing traffic has enough room to get by. If your vehicle cannot be
seen from 200 feet in each direction, you need to warn approaching
traffic. This can be done with flags, flares, signs, signals or flaggers
placed at least 200 feet from your vehicle in each direction.

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Re: Vehicles towed from Wahkeena

Post by BigBear » July 20th, 2017, 12:09 pm

There still seems to be some misconception that the only place it is illegal to impede traffic is the Columbia Gorge Highway. I've supplied ORS 811.550 and RCW 46.61.570 for your consideration. It is not legal to impede traffic flow by parking in an active lane of traffic. All four wheels must be on the shoulder (the area on the right side of the white line).

I recall this issue being of such a mystery in a thread re. Herman Creek Trailhead last summer that USFS made it easy: no parking along the roadway at all with signs posted every few feet for emphasis. Sadly, what was once called "common sense" has become "extraordinary intelligence." I am sorry if this assertion is offensive, but I cannot understand how a person can straddle the white line and not know they have parked illegally.

The rules listed below are far more detailed and include nuances that are likely to catch most drivers off guard. The basics are: (1) do not impede traffic flow and (2) do not impair the vision of others.

2015 ORS 811.550
Places where stopping, standing and parking prohibited


This section establishes places where stopping, standing and parking a vehicle are prohibited for purposes of the penalties under ORS 811.555 (Illegal stopping, standing or parking). Except as provided under an exemption in ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking), a person is in violation of ORS 811.555 (Illegal stopping, standing or parking) if a person parks, stops or leaves standing a vehicle in any of the following places:

(1) Upon a roadway outside a business district or residence district, whether attended or unattended, when it is practicable to stop, park or leave the vehicle standing off the roadway. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (1), (7) and (9) are applicable to this subsection.

(2) On a shoulder, whether attended or unattended, unless a clear and unobstructed width of the roadway opposite the standing vehicle is left for the passage of other vehicles and the standing vehicle is visible from a distance of 200 feet in each direction upon the roadway or the person, at least 200 feet in each direction upon the roadway, warns approaching motorists of the standing vehicle by use of flaggers, flags, signs or other signals. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (9) are applicable to this subsection.

(3) On the roadway side of a vehicle stopped or parked at the edge or curb of a highway. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(4) On a sidewalk. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(5) Within an intersection. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(6) On a crosswalk. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(7) Between a safety zone and the adjacent curb or within 30 feet of points on the curb immediately opposite the ends of a safety zone, unless a different length is indicated by signs and markings. For purposes of this subsection the safety zone must be an area or space officially set apart within a roadway for the exclusive use of pedestrians and which is protected or is so marked or indicated by adequate signs as to be plainly visible at all times while set apart as a safety zone. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(8) Alongside or opposite a street excavation or obstruction when stopping, standing or parking would obstruct traffic. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(9) Upon a bridge or other elevated structure upon a highway. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (8) are applicable to this subsection.

(10) Within a highway tunnel. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(11) On any railroad or rail fixed guideway system tracks or within seven and one-half feet of the nearest rail at a time when the parking of vehicles would conflict with operations or repair of the tracks. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(12) On a throughway. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(13) In the area between roadways of a divided highway, including crossovers. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(14) At any place where traffic control devices prohibit stopping. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(15) In front of a public or private driveway. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (2) and (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(16) Within 10 feet of a fire hydrant. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (2) and (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(17) Within 20 feet of a crosswalk at an intersection. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (2) and (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(18) Within 50 feet upon the approach to an official flashing signal, stop sign, yield sign or traffic control device located at the side of the roadway if the standing or parking of a vehicle will obstruct the view of any traffic control device located at the side of the roadway. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (2) and (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(19) Within 15 feet of the driveway entrance to a fire station and on the side of a street opposite the entrance to a fire station, within 75 feet of the entrance. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (2) and (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(20) At any place where traffic control devices prohibit standing. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (2) and (4) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(21) Within 50 feet of the nearest rail of a railroad or rail fixed guideway system crossing. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (3) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(22) At any place where traffic control devices prohibit parking. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) (3) to (7) are applicable to this subsection.

(23) On a bicycle lane. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) are applicable to this subsection.

(24) On a bicycle path. Exemptions under ORS 811.560 (Exemptions from prohibitions on stopping, standing or parking) are applicable to this subsection. [1983 c.338 §669; 1985 c.21 §1; 1985 c.334 §1; 1989 c.433 §2; 1997 c.249 §234; 2001 c.522 §9]


RCWs > Title 46 > Chapter 46.61 > Section 46.61.570
46.61.560 << 46.61.570 >> 46.61.575
RCW 46.61.570


Stopping, standing, or parking prohibited in specified places—Reserving portion of highway prohibited.
(1) Except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic, or in compliance with law or the directions of a police officer or official traffic control device, no person shall:
(a) Stop, stand, or park a vehicle:
(i) On the roadway side of any vehicle stopped or parked at the edge or curb of a street;
(ii) On a sidewalk or street planting strip;
(iii) Within an intersection;
(iv) On a crosswalk;
(v) Between a safety zone and the adjacent curb or within thirty feet of points on the curb immediately opposite the ends of a safety zone, unless official signs or markings indicate a different no-parking area opposite the ends of a safety zone;
(vi) Alongside or opposite any street excavation or obstruction when stopping, standing, or parking would obstruct traffic;
(vii) Upon any bridge or other elevated structure upon a highway or within a highway tunnel;
(viii) On any railroad tracks;
(ix) In the area between roadways of a divided highway including crossovers; or
(x) At any place where official signs prohibit stopping.
(b) Stand or park a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except momentarily to pick up or discharge a passenger or passengers:
(i) In front of a public or private driveway or within five feet of the end of the curb radius leading thereto;
(ii) Within fifteen feet of a fire hydrant;
(iii) Within twenty feet of a crosswalk;
(iv) Within thirty feet upon the approach to any flashing signal, stop sign, yield sign, or traffic control signal located at the side of a roadway;
(v) Within twenty feet of the driveway entrance to any fire station and on the side of a street opposite the entrance to any fire station within seventy-five feet of said entrance when properly signposted; or
(vi) At any place where official signs prohibit standing.
(c) Park a vehicle, whether occupied or not, except temporarily for the purpose of and while actually engaged in loading or unloading property or passengers:
(i) Within fifty feet of the nearest rail of a railroad crossing; or
(ii) At any place where official signs prohibit parking.
(2) Parking or standing shall be permitted in the manner provided by law at all other places except a time limit may be imposed or parking restricted at other places but such limitation and restriction shall be by city ordinance or county resolution or order of the secretary of transportation upon highways under their respective jurisdictions.
(3) No person shall move a vehicle not lawfully under his or her control into any such prohibited area or away from a curb such a distance as is unlawful.
(4) It shall be unlawful for any person to reserve or attempt to reserve any portion of a highway for the purpose of stopping, standing, or parking to the exclusion of any other like person, nor shall any person be granted such right.
[ 1977 ex.s. c 151 § 40; 1975 c 62 § 35; 1965 ex.s. c 155 § 66.]

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