The Quiet Pledge: What to do about overcrowding

[kepPNW]

Obviously the forums here (and everywhere else) are quite subdued now because everyone is busy posting their selfies on FB and Instagram and everything,

Oh, c'mon now... Both Facebook and Instagram were there (and hugely popular) when it was decided to exclude, by name, a great number of this forum's regular contributors. That, as may have been predicted, pretty well correlates with the long-term trend, here. Shorter-term, well, the weather's kinda sucky lately.

[jessbee]

Oh, c'mon now... Both Facebook and Instagram were there (and hugely popular) when it was decided to exclude, by name, a great number of this forum's regular contributors. That, as may have been predicted, pretty well correlates with the long-term trend, here. Shorter-term, well, the weather's kinda sucky lately.

Not that I used to post a ton, but I never post here any more because it's a pain in the rear to convert all the html code, re-upload all my photos at the right size, then turn it into a bb post, when I have already put in the effort to format things nicely on my website. WAY easier to just share my FB post than it is to spend an hour re-coding everything on here.

Weather, huh? ... no such thing as bad weather, how does that saying go?

[kepPNW]

Oh, c'mon now... Both Facebook and Instagram were there (and hugely popular) when it was decided to exclude, by name, a great number of this forum's regular contributors. That, as may have been predicted, pretty well correlates with the long-term trend, here. Shorter-term, well, the weather's kinda sucky lately.

Not that I used to post a ton, but I never post here any more because it's a pain in the rear to convert all the html code, re-upload all my photos at the right size, then turn it into a bb post, when I have already put in the effort to format things nicely on my website.

It's not all that bad... Having the photos stored on Flickr actually makes it damn easy. All the resizing and BBCode'ing are done for you with a couple clicks.

WAY easier to just share my FB post than it is to spend an hour re-coding everything on here.

Without question. It's more difficult to weave a narrative through them, but wins hands-down on most other counts.

Weather, huh? ... no such thing as bad weather, how does that saying go?

Just bad gear, yep. I'll be out there this weekend! You too, I imagine. But hey, we're special.

[Bosterson]

Obviously the forums here (and everywhere else) are quite subdued now because everyone is busy posting their selfies on FB and Instagram and everything,

Oh, c'mon now... Both Facebook and Instagram were there (and hugely popular) when it was decided to exclude, by name, a great number of this forum's regular contributors. That, as may have been predicted, pretty well correlates with the long-term trend, here. Shorter-term, well, the weather's kinda sucky lately.

Are you referring to the great "Oregon Hikers" tantrum of 2015? I'm sure your FB protest fiefdom helped draw people away from here, but I was really referring more to a variety of forums in general (CascadeClimbers is also pretty slow these days), so yes, long term trend. But my point was just that we're now in a world where everyone is now trying to replicate everyone else's curated pictures on Instagram, so it's not clear how much of an impact the FG is making on where people go (ie, the dreaded "Portland/Oregon Hikers Effect"), and thusly how much influence our FG wields on changing hearts and minds about LNTing and not trashing outdoor areas.

Potentially we're in a situation where rando newbie internet non-hiker person is surfing through Instagram, sees someone's highly curated (ie, 425th take with the sun just right) Munra Point photo, thinks Munra point seems pretty radical, has no idea where or what Munra Point is, Googles Munra Point, the first result is the OH FG, and the very first thing they (should) see is a big "LNT don't trash our outdoors!" thing before anything else happens. Otherwise, they're like, cool, Munra Point is in the Gorge, I'll go up there with a bunch of soda bottles I can throw off the hillside while I'm livestreaming my quad copter, etc etc etc.

[kepPNW]

so it's not clear how much of an impact the FG is making on where people go (ie, the dreaded "Portland/Oregon Hikers Effect"),

My impression has always been the "PH-Effect" was triggered by Trip Reports, not the Field Guide. For example, your night climb up South Sister inspired me and Peder to replicate, and... boom! That it was more a response of lurkers already here, than random Googles for trail names. I think if the latter were the case, we'd certainly still be seeing chatter about it, but the precipitous drop in TRs is what's led to the all-but-forgotten "effect." IOW, the elites may have already gotten the desired (loss of) effect by driving away forum participants here?

[retired jerry]

I occasionally run into someone that recognizes me from the forum. And occasionally run into someone using the field guide.

Given the lack of statistical analysis, I'd guess it's about even.

Things change. Something that's popular becomes less so, and then maybe comes back. Accelerated by the internet maybe. Good for us to be comfortable with this or we'll be uncomfortable a lot.

Malcom Gladwell's "The Tipping Point" is interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tipping_Point

A few people can make a big difference. Catch other people's interest. Things go viral. Then out of style again.

[Martell]

OH FG, and the very first thing they (should) see is a big "LNT don't trash our outdoors!" thing before anything else happens. Otherwise, they're like, cool, Munra Point is in the Gorge, I'll go up there with a bunch of soda bottles I can throw off the hillside while I'm livestreaming my quad copter, etc etc etc.

If there was some way to work in LNT information specific to a given hike or trailhead, it would be much more powerful. But also more difficult to implement than a generic disclaimer.

[Koda]

A link to a dedicated LNT page? The link can be at the top and large bold red font…? I think a LNT campaign here is a good idea.

----

I think the PH effect might still possibly be viable for obscure places but I’m also wondering if trip reporting is becoming less popular because simply because how many trip reports do we need for the same popular trails. Newbies search and find the forum and maybe 100s of TRs on one trail are found now and say cool, I will hike that, but not much new to write about. We’ve also had several regular threads lately about not posting the lesser known gems and some of us (like me) have been adamant about suggesting others “take the pledge” (to not report) so if that is having an impact then those TRs are in decline. I think that’s a possible hypothesis, when anyone sits down and thinks about it no matter how much fun it would be to participate in the forum (writing TRs) it just doesn't make sense to post to the public about that obscure but gorgeous place you now know how to easily get to again…

[BigBear]

If you want to do something about the overcrowding of the trails, get rid of the "Find a Hike" forum here and elsewhere on the internet. With Smartphone in hand, IgnorantHiker can find the trailhead with no research whatsoever, and then follow the route on their phone - which might explain why so many young people I encounter on the trail in recent years are staring at their hand-held devices instead of taking in the view.

I can't say its Instagram that causing the problem because coffee table books have been around since the early 1970s and Sunset Magazine et al were around before then. The difference between then and now is: back-then, you had to research the how-to in order to see it for yourself, today any monkey can type in the hike name and get all the information in seconds. Not getting lost on the trail may involve more skills than the Smartphone can handle, but that doesn't reduce the impact at the trailhead.

The first time I hiked Dog Mountain on a sunny Saturday in October, I was alone on the trail. Ahhh...how nice that day was. The last half-dozen times (about 5 years ago and counting), you could have held hands from the trailhead ot the summit without a break in the chain. Ughh! Last year, I passed the trailhead on the way back from another hike, and "are you kidding me?" I think there are less people at Waterfront Park during Rose Festival.

[mattisnotfrench]

I think we're realizing that this is a multi-faceted problem that defies easy explanations. There are a lot of reasons why trails are becoming so crowded these days. Multi-faceted problems require multi-faceted solutions.

Let's keep this discussion going, because we are generating some good ideas here. I know that I'm internalizing a lot of this for future writing projects...