MHNF allowing another historic structure to deteriorate?

[kepPNW]

Passed through Tilly Jane a couple weeks ago and noted that the cook shack, built around the historic stove up there, has fallen into rather significant disrepair. There are gaping holes in the roof, and lots of snow inside. Looking back at older photos, there was less snow in there last winter. It appears the MHNF is allowing further ongoing degradation of their historic relics. Pretty sad.

• 
  New destruction from this winter, or lingering neglect? (5/28/2016)
  
  
  Snow piling up inside the historic cook shack at Tilly Jane, two weeks ago. (5/28/2016)
  
  
  Snow piling up inside the historic cook shack at Tilly Jane, last winter. (1/9/2015)
  
  
  A cook stove was first built by the American Legion sometime in 1924, and the shed over the stove was built in 1938.

WTH's wrong with this unit of the USFS?

[drm]

Can't speak specifically about the cook shack, but I'm on the committee that oversees the nearby Tilly Jane Guardstation, and the permit includes the garage behind it. When we looked into replacing the roof, historical requirements that we keep the same look required cedar shingles of a size that are no longer commonly made. So following the historic requirement added $10,000 to the cost for replacing the roof because we had to order custom shingles. That is $10,000 extra, above and beyond the cost for using conventional shingles, and getting a roofer to drive up there when the road is open and do the job.

The Forest Service does not do this, they have no funds to do something like this. The permit holder must pay for it, and of course the rental of the cabins will not pay for this, so grantseeking is required. Such grants are available and were used to redo Cloud Cap in recent years. I don't know what the status is for replacing the cook shed roof but I know the people who manage the A-Frame and I'm guessing they may be the ones. Furthermore the A-Frame itself has structural issues that need to be addressed. Not as serious as the cookshed, but it's issues take precedence.

[Guy]

Can't speak specifically about the cook shack, but I'm on the committee that oversees the nearby Tilly Jane Guardstation, and the permit includes the garage behind it. When we looked into replacing the roof, historical requirements that we keep the same look required cedar shingles of a size that are no longer commonly made. So following the historic requirement added $10,000 to the cost for replacing the roof because we had to order custom shingles. That is $10,000 extra, above and beyond the cost for using conventional shingles, and getting a roofer to drive up there when the road is open and do the job.

The Forest Service does not do this, they have no funds to do something like this. The permit holder must pay for it, and of course the rental of the cabins will not pay for this, so grantseeking is required. Such grants are available and were used to redo Cloud Cap in recent years. I don't know what the status is for replacing the cook shed roof but I know the people who manage the A-Frame and I'm guessing they may be the ones. Furthermore the A-Frame itself has structural issues that need to be addressed. Not as serious as the cookshed, but it's issues take precedence.

This is the kind of (IMHO) bureaucratic madness that I just don't get. Yes I can certainly understand that some buildings should be repaired authentically as they were originally but if I understand you correctly Dean what you are saying is if the building can't be repaired in that way (ie, specially made shingles in your case) then it should be allowed to rot away rather than repair it with modern materials.

That's just nuts in my book.

[drm]

There can be exceptions to historic requirements, for example for safety. But in the case I described it is just cost and while I believe that is possible in some cases, the process for getting it approved would likely also be pretty bureaucratic. After all, are two foot long shingles (which can be bought off the shelf) such a violation compared to three foot shingles? In our case, that is the choice. I do not know specifically what is going on with the cook shed so I don't want people to assume it is the same there. Remember that these structures are tended to by volunteers who have only so much time and expertise.

Our group has in some form been managing the Tilly Jane Guard Station for decades and the continual transfer of responsibility from the FS to us volunteers is a real problem. The number of staff at FS offices has plummeted since then and of course we all know that in some years the majority of the FS budget goes to fight fires. Bills have been introduced in Congress to restructure how fire fighting is financed, but not much gets through Congress these days. Decades ago, all we had to do was handle the rental money and resupply materials: fire wood, TP, propane, etc. Now we have to have the toilet vault pumped, deal with danger standing trees, and then these structural issues.

[Koda]

Normally I would lament the bureaucratic madness that misappropriates the funds for this stuff, but in this case I can guarantee that if volunteers were allowed to side step the bureaucratic process they would get it done right and on time. All I’m suggesting is there is no reason to let a historical structure like that rot away...

[mandrake]

It is a shame, but I believe the Tilly Jane cook shack was written off long ago as a condemned building by the Forest Service... at least as far back as 2012; possibly even farther back. Don't know if it's still there, but there used to be a sign on the door to this effect. Despite it's condemned status (structural problems?), people still used to break in and stay there as an overflow facility when the A-frame was full. (This was back in the pre-reservation days when the A-frame was first-come/first-served.)

[pdxgene]

It's really a shame they're letting the old Sandy Guard Station just crumble too even though it got a listing on the Nat'l Registry of Historic Places (or whatever the official name is)..

This was the first time I saw it on 1/14/09



And this was 4/3/16



Just complete and sad neglect...

[kepPNW]

Yeah, I feel the same way about the Sandy Guard Station, but I can be just a bit more sympathetic towards its neglect given it's actually within the Wilderness area. No such excuse at Tilly Jane.

What I really don't comprehend is how the USFS can put the responsibility off to volunteer organizations, but then tie their hands so there's no effective, if even possible, way to do what needs to be done. Just isn't right.

[Koda]

Yeah, I feel the same way about the Sandy Guard Station, but I can be just a bit more sympathetic towards its neglect given it's actually within the Wilderness area. No such excuse at Tilly Jane.

actually Id rather see the Guard Station inside the wilderness boundary restored historically first, the Cook Shack being outside I could live with a cheap modern roof just as long as the stove and structure remains.

I dont know why I have a preference for one over the other, I might be partial to historical structures grandfathered inside a wilderness area for some reason they are cooler...

[pdxgene]

I don't know, maybe it's not realistic.... but I've thought as we've seen a couple lives ended crossing the Sandy in a storm that the Guard Station could have saved lives as an emergency shelter.