A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known places...

General discussions on hiking in Oregon and the Pacific Northwest
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SWriverstone
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by SWriverstone » March 17th, 2016, 11:12 am

mdvaden wrote:Scott ... I visited the GOT today for the first time in almost 2 years. It was really weird, because I headed there realizing for the first time I was going to be photographing them as smaller redwoods. I had it slated for this visit and was headed down last night before I posted. I started today in Humboldt redwoods though. Went there late last night. And ended up at Jed Smith around 4pm.

The plus side, if there is one, was at least the paths in were not brutalized. Wear and tear is more confined to around the trees, more pronounced around Screaming Titans.

I think if people like yourself or others can help spread on the internet my The Forest Weeps page and Grove of Titans Page, it may actually help reduce wear and tear. I think a good amount of people who read are quite surprised and can help raise awareness so more future visitors are more careful to stay within the spots already "broken in" so to speak.
By saying you were photographing them as "smaller" redwoods, I think you mean because taller ones have been found? (They don't exactly look small to me!) :-)

Don't know if you saw my comment earlier in the thread about this Mario, but when I visited the GOT last summer, it was marked on Google Maps, but not marked as "Closed." I noticed that now it is. Do you know how this happened? (Just wondering if it was the state park or someone else who submitted this to Google.) I'm guessing no fence or anything has been put up around it—so wondering if Google Maps saying "Closed" will actually deter anyone from going there?

And yes—I'll share you're web page whenever I can!

@drm and texasbb: As I understand it, while you'd expect a 300+' tall tree to have a deep root system, redwoods don't. Their root systems are like huge, shallow pancakes (they don't have the big taproot—like an oak—that goes straight down dozens of feet). And often, giant redwoods in groves share a common (very shallow) root system (from all being entertwined). This is why those giants often fall in storms, because they aren't very well-anchored to the earth. Which is why they're more susceptible to damage when people tromp around them.
texasbb wrote:I still think 99.999% of the damage this thread is talking about is damage to the experience for humans. The logic breaks down when we're keeping humans away to preserve the experience for humans. Unless, of course, I want to preserve the experience for myself by excluding others; then the logic holds, but a few other words come to mind.
I think you hit the nail on the head texasbb—we really are talking about preserving the experience for humans. Because if we weren't, then we'd all just agree never to go to these places and forget about them and move on. And yes, I think in many cases we're trying to keep humans away to preserve the experience for humans.

I've been torn over this idea for a long time.

EXAMPLE: I'm a whitewater kayaker, and spent years mastering the technique of paddling a kayak and learning to roll. As a result, I can't stand rafts on whitewater rivers. Why? Because rafts are incredibly forgiving. Any out-of-shape, talentless moron can float down class 4 whitewater in a raft and be perfectly safe. And that pi$$es me off. (But...if more people rafting a river can help preserve its wild and scenic status, then I guess it's a net positive.)

Ditto with ATV's: Yeah, I get that they're fun to ride, but aside from the CO2-belching aspect, any out-of-shape, talentless moron can penetrate the deepest wilderness on an ATV. And because of this, I hate 'em. HATE 'em. But again...if said wilderness is more likely to be protected because a bunch of yahoos like to ride their ATV's there...then it may be a net positive.

Scott

Lurch
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by Lurch » March 17th, 2016, 11:57 am

texasbb wrote: Not sure I buy this. I'm no botanist, but people, animals, and all manner of equipment have been "walking" around trees for millennia, and it's hardly common that such nearby viewing kills said trees. The notion that hikers walking around something as massive as a redwood will harm its roots strains credulity, at least with the numbers we're talking about in hard-to-hike-to places. If trees are that sensitive to hardened dirt, someone should tell them to quit growing in and around rocks.
The problem is not necessarily the soil compaction, there are clearly large trees that grow and thrive in compacted soil with thousands of people around them all the time, just look at our city parks.

The problem, is the change. These giants have spent the vast majority of their lives living under relatively static conditions. They've built their root structure to best fit and take advantage of those conditions. In a relative blink of an eye people come and literally stomp on them. These are gigantic plants, they don't respond quickly to change. The question is can they respond faster than we can cause damage.

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mdvaden
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by mdvaden » March 17th, 2016, 5:51 pm

SWriverstone wrote:
By saying you were photographing them as "smaller" redwoods, I think you mean because taller ones have been found? (They don't exactly look small to me!) :-)

Don't know if you saw my comment earlier in the thread about this Mario, but when I visited the GOT last summer, it was marked ..(cut).. "Closed."

Scott
The closed thing was probably a collaboration between parks and Google since there is no actual "grove" at that location.

2008 to 2014 new discoveries were made in the coast redwoods of many kinds. Including new largest. The Grove of Titans - all of them - are literally smaller trees than what was found during the new phase of discovery. Even new northernmost albino redwoods

Image

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mdvaden
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by mdvaden » March 24th, 2016, 7:18 am

Here is a more recent image to compare alongside the ones I posted 10 days ago on March 14th. This is the most recent, taken this month.

Image

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windmtnpete
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by windmtnpete » April 4th, 2016, 10:18 am

Ahhhh, I love redwoods.... born in redwood country, spent many years in redwood country.

My thoughts on keeping humans away to preserve the experience for humans? I must side with the Native American tribal beliefs. There is a spiritual law that is above our human laws. The Native Americans were much more connected with these spiritual laws. The tribes shared the holy sites because that was required in order to increase the spiritual experience. They welcomed each other and encouraged more participation and visitations to places like Wind Mountain in order to create a deeper connection to the spirit world. In order to receive the experience, you have to give away the experience. It's karma at it's deepest level and goes against everything we have learned in this selfish modern age.
“Not all who wander are lost.”

― J.R.R. Tolkien

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mdvaden
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by mdvaden » October 2nd, 2016, 8:25 pm

Redwood National and State Parks ended up utilizing a couple of my images for small information signs.

They noted 3300 square meters of impacted area.
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Redwood_Sign_800B.jpg

Lurch
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by Lurch » October 3rd, 2016, 4:29 pm

I hope they asked permission? If so and you agree, that's awesome!

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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by pcg » October 5th, 2016, 7:36 am

SWriverstone wrote:...I'm a whitewater kayaker, and spent years mastering the technique of paddling a kayak and learning to roll. As a result, I can't stand rafts on whitewater rivers. Why? Because rafts are incredibly forgiving. Any out-of-shape, talentless moron can float down class 4 whitewater in a raft and be perfectly safe. And that pi$$es me off.
???

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Koda
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by Koda » December 18th, 2017, 1:26 pm

the environmental effects of social media and the broadcasting of little known places hit the mainstream media.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trying-to- ... much-love/
A few years ago, someone posted the GPS coordinates of the "Titans" on social media. Images online lured thousands of tourists to the area in search of the secret grove. They criss-crossed the park, creating unofficial trails (known as "social trails").
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2

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Arturo
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Re: A few thoughts on the broadcasting of little-known place

Post by Arturo » January 29th, 2018, 9:10 am

Man is a bi-ped.
Until we can flap our arms and fly we are going to walk on the earth.
We are also a social creature.
To suggest we shouldn't step, or share, goes against our natural instincts.
We have those for a reason.

Imparting knowledge and sharing experience with others are wonderful human traits.
Imagine if a teacher never taught.

Yeah some people are idiots, but we don't get, or want, to live their lives for them.
Some future physics student may use his education to engineer a bridge.
Another may use it to build a bomb.
Do we not teach physics?

When we stop sharing and teaching, we stop being human.
No thanks.

I actually saw this thread because as a day hiker with an elevation gain habit and the Gorge being closed, I was thinking of posting a thread looking for local off the track hikes. I thought that was the type of thing this place was for ... now I'm not too sure :shock:

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