Valhalla: Amazing Geological Wonder Discovered in Oregon

[retired jerry]

what if two groups of 12 temporarily meet, is that okay?

[miah66]

what if two groups of 12 temporarily meet, is that okay?

All you could ever care to know.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/recreation/wild ... 120810.pdf

[Koda]

...the large crew seems to violate the 12 heartbeat rule....

Ive seen a few comments in this thread they broke the 12 person rule but I didnt notice 12 in the OPB documentary. Or did I just not take note? I only watched it once last weekend... how many were in their trip at any one time?

In their own words...

• • Eight members on the Top-Side Crew, 11 volunteers and five highly trained canyoneers who used 700 feet of climbing rope and dozens of carabiners to descend 600 feet into an uncharted gorge.
    
    • Capturing Valhalla: OPB's Toughest Shoot
      http://www.opb.org/news/series/valhalla ... he-scenes/

that doesnt say all of them went in as one party. There is no evidence here they broke the 12 max rule.

they did have two parties, IIRC the rule says they cant travel together and must camp a certain distance apart which was clearly observed in the documentary. If each party was maxed out, that would be a total of 24 supporting the project abiding by the wilderness rule, and thats assuming everyone went in.

[mattisnotfrench]

yup! illegal again.

also.. posted from CascadeClimbers.com just now.. take a look.. same canyon!
http://corvallismountainrescue.org/medi ... earch.html

Wow, that's crazy. The early days of the internet have mostly escaped easy searched; I never stumbled upon this page in the many dozens of searches I did on this area.

Poor Mr. Malone did get a lot of crap over at CC.. his early posts seemed very trollish based on the history of postings on that forum. I did feel bad for him when people piled on, but, he also was kinda weird coming on there asking for help in 'promoting' his secret spot.. He already knew about Mazamas, OFG, and other venues. His first post talks about OPB/OFG doing a special on it. If I figured out some medical secret and knew of organizations dedicated to showcasing medical advances, I probably wouldn't go onto a doctor's forum and try to get their opinion on the 'best way to showcase my knowledge', but would instead contact the organization I know of.

And when the truth came out... lo and behold people had already been there and knew of it. Not everyone, but as seen by the link I posted above (http://corvallismountainrescue.org/medi ... earch.html) it seems that him 'keeping his discovery to himself' process and billing it up prevented the normal process where people affiliated with the above search would have been able to speak to him. He categorically wasn't the first person to find it, be aware of it, or explore even part of it. It's impressive, but so is Oneonta Gorge... no? Hyperbole Canyon starts to make more sense with time.

This. I mean, he found it by flying over the gorge. But other people had been there before, and many others knew it was there. Not a lot of people, but enough. And everybody decided to keep it secret. I'd never told anybody about it other than a vague post on Flickr in the eight years since I tried to make my way in. This was equally because I wanted to keep the place a secret and because I didn't make it to anything all that exciting (but I was close!). No place this day and age can stay a complete secret. I'm sure there are dozens, if not hundreds of people who at least knew of the canyon's existence.

I don't have a problem with the documentary itself. The only problem I have is that they publicized the location. It didn't need to be publicized. Anybody with an ability to read topographic maps and use Google Earth could have figured out where it was, but they didn't need to tell people how to get there. Some things should stay sacred.

I'm also annoyed they didn't really emphasize how lucky they were that the stream flow was so low (they mentioned it, but it's a much bigger deal than they let on). There's no way they pull that off in a typical June. Or even a typical July. And in some years, August. The river drains out of Park Ridge, and in normal snow years the melt doesn't stop until August, giving the river a fairly high flow well into the summer. The time I nearly made it into Valhalla I went in late September. The next time I tried was in late July a few years later and we got turned around after less than a mile due to high water. Hopefully people trying to visit have more sense than I did all those years ago.

[kepPNW]

Ive seen a few comments in this thread they broke the 12 person rule but I didnt notice 12 in the OPB documentary. Or did I just not take note? I only watched it once last weekend... how many were in their trip at any one time?

In their own words...

• • Eight members on the Top-Side Crew, 11 volunteers and five highly trained canyoneers who used 700 feet of climbing rope and dozens of carabiners to descend 600 feet into an uncharted gorge.
    
    • Capturing Valhalla: OPB's Toughest Shoot
      http://www.opb.org/news/series/valhalla ... he-scenes/

that doesnt say all of them went in as one party. There is no evidence here they broke the 12 max rule.

they did have two parties, IIRC the rule says they cant travel together and must camp a certain distance apart which was clearly observed in the documentary. If each party was maxed out, that would be a total of 24 supporting the project abiding by the wilderness rule, and thats assuming everyone went in.

I read that to say, "8+11+5 descended into," without any mention of those coming up from below.

My second take would be "8 stayed up top" and "11+5 descended."

I agree, it's kind of tortured language, and I'd even grant it's possible they meant it as you suggest. Just doesn't seem so, to me. I mean, they wouldn't have 11 "volunteers" descend without the 5 "canyoneers," and the latter was almost certainly in need of the former for support... Nah, I can't parse that to support two distinct groups of 12.

(I'd have to watch it again, but I recall someone saying they outright mentioned 24 people in the party at one point, too.)

[Koda]

it can be read a few different ways...

all I know is I haven't seen anything solid anyone broke any rules. I like OPB, and I really like Uncage's stuff. Without any solid evidence of foul play we've just got 11 pages of speculation which I think we've covered well.
I'd like to get back to just admiring the project and discussing the impressive canyon, or maybe even the idea of letting out a joyous whoop of excitement after rapelling a waterfall. I know I would...

[Webfoot]

also.. posted from CascadeClimbers.com just now.. take a look.. same canyon!
http://corvallismountainrescue.org/medi ... earch.html

Well! I'll be...

So much for "first men to set foot on," not that I take such things seriously anyway unless spacecraft or modern mining technology were required to get there.

[Aimless]

cross-posted with Webfoot's post:

If I recall, at least once during the documentary a member of the crew marveled at the privilege of 'being the first person ever to see the interior' of that canyon. It seems everyone at OPB took Malone at his word that no one had any inkling this place existed. Malone was so sure of this and so concerned with keeping the credit all for himself that he either failed to do any real research on whether the place was genuinely unknown, or else he knew it had been explored and decided to take full credit anyway. Either way, his enthusiasm led him to make totally unjustified assertions about 'his' discovery.

Still, it is a beautiful slot canyon with lots of excellent waterfalls, so that much wasn't overhyped.

[johngo]

Wowzer, this has been quite a thread!

I'd like toss something out here that I don't think has been addressed.

Is the location of the gorge is actually in a USFS designated wilderness area?

I have yet to see a map, or any UTM coordinates, etc. that would answer this question.
Because, unless everyone here knows pretty much the exact location we're talking about, all of this discussion about wilderness regulations etc. is kind of a mood point.

(In having a look at caltopo.com in the general area in question, it appears that yes it is in a wilderness area, but can we definitively prove that?)

johngo (former USFS wilderness ranger)

[adamschneider]

Is the location of the gorge is actually in a USFS designated wilderness area?

Yes. The maps in the OFG program clearly show that it's upstream of the confluence of the North Fork Breitenbush River and the South Fork North Fork Breitenbush River (seriously), right underneath the big capital letters on the topo map that say "MOUNT JEFFERSON WILDERNESS."